Beyond the Reformer

From Basement Studio to 9 Locations: How New York Pilates Defined Its Method

• Nic Lenny

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0:00 | 59:07

"Real change in your body happens from grounded, consistent work. Doing the split and a handstand is entertaining, but that's not what Pilates is about."

In this episode, Nic is joined by Heather Andersen, founder of New York Pilates - one of the most recognisable reformer studio brands in the world, with nine locations across New York City and counting.

Heather built New York Pilates from a basement space in Greenwich Village in 2013, at a time when group reformer classes simply didn't exist. She shares what it actually took to scale to nine studios - from building onboarding systems and maintaining consistency across locations, to the pricing mistakes and people management lessons learned the hard way.

They also get into the state of the industry: why clients are confused about what Pilates even is, what separates genuine contemporary Pilates from the "Pilates adjacent" world, and why the most transformational work looks like nothing on camera.

Timestamps

00:23 How New York Pilates started

01:37 Heather's background in ballet and early Pilates training

07:14 Making the leap from teacher to studio owner

13:14 Building the brand from day one

14:38 Early mistakes and people management

16:03 What a New York Pilates class feels like

18:44 Classical vs. contemporary vs. Pilates adjacent

25:20 Scaling from one studio to nine

29:16 Building systems for consistency

31:34 Teacher onboarding and quality management

37:51 Pricing, ClassPass, and why loyalty beats volume

44:34 Social media and the decision to talk about real Pilates

55:22 Where to find Heather




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SPEAKER_00

Coming up on this week's episode of Beyond the Reformer. Today I'm joined by Heather Anderson. It's become one of the most recognizable brands, which is not an easy feat, especially in a city like New York.

SPEAKER_01

I could not possibly have imagined how popular Pilates would become. Or just what has happened to the industry. I basically pre-sold them a ton of sessions. And that's how I got my initial seed money, and that's what I used to put down the deposit on the space. I am selling something that everyone wants to buy, where everyone was like, oh my god, I want to come. Was a very exhilarating experience. You don't have to be everything to everyone, really like niching hard into what we're obsessed with.

SPEAKER_00

Hello everybody, and welcome back to Beyond the Reformer. I'm Nick Lenny. I'm a studio owner, a Pilates teacher, an educator, and your host for these conversations every week, exploring the people and ideas shaping the Pilates world. Today's was a really interesting conversation because Heather brings the perspective that we don't always talk about in Pilates. What it actually takes to build a studio that stands out. From starting out as a teacher to creating a brand that's become a real part of the modern Pilates scene in New York, she's built something that goes far beyond just great classes. In today's episode, we talk about her journey into Pilates, the early days of building New York Pilates, and what really goes into creating a studio experience that people connect with, from the brand to the environment through to pricing, growth, and scaling in one of the most competitive cities in the world. Before we dive into today's conversation, I've just got a quick favor to ask. If you enjoy these episodes, I would so appreciate if you could take a moment to like, follow, subscribe wherever you're listening or watching to the song, or on YouTube or on Spotify video. This is a small thing. It really does help the podcast to grow. And also if you could share it with any of your friends, colleagues, clients, and just help continue to spread these messages about the world of Pilates. Okay, let's get into today's conversation. Heather, welcome to Beyond the Reformer. It's wonderful to have you here.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much. It is a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I'm excited to talk all things New York Pilates. It's become one of the most recognizable brands, which is not an easy feat, especially in a city like New York. Was that something that you intended from the beginning or has it evolved over time?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I'll say that when we first opened, all the way back in 2013, which is so many years ago, there wasn't a group reformer studios. That wasn't a thing back then. And so I don't necessarily think that I had the vision of what it would turn into. I could not possibly have imagined how popular Pilates would become or just what has happened to the industry. I could never have it imagined. I obviously wanted to open a successful business, but really I wanted to make something that was what I was looking for as a private instructor for so many years. What I wanted was to be able to go take a reformer class. And that was my vision. And it really was about creating what I wanted to take. And I hoped that people would also love it.

SPEAKER_00

And I think I opened my studio in 2015, actually. And similar, and I think in New York you were further on than we were here in the UK. But I think that's such a great grounded place to start from, isn't it? Like what you believe in and what you feel is good. So tell me a little bit about your story, Heather. How did Pilates first come into your life?

SPEAKER_01

So I grew up as I always say a baby ballerina. So very serious, pre-professional ballet dancer. I did the summer programs, all the things. And we did Pilates as cross-training as part of that. So starting when I was probably 12 years old, we were taking math classes and doing the hundreds and training our core and just learning Pilates as part of our overall curriculum. So I feel like I really grew up with it. And then I moved to New York when I was 19. And in my mind, I was like, okay, I got I started doing work study at Steps on Broadway and I got a job working the front desk at a Pilates studio so that I could take Pilates. And I would take math classes there. And if someone didn't show up for their private, I would get to take a private session here or there. And I really did it so that I could take Pilates. And working the front desk there is where I fell in love with the idea of being a teacher. Because prior to that, I was really just looking at it as I was trying to train myself and my body for just dance, really. And being there and watching the transformational experiences that people were having, non-dancers in their bodies, I found it so exciting. And that's when I knew I wanted to be a teacher because I wanted to be able to do that for people too.

SPEAKER_00

And so what did that teacher training journey look like initially?

SPEAKER_01

So I initially did a mat training through balanced body, like very, very early. And then I did my gyrotonic training first because honestly, there were so many Pilates trainings, I was a little confused. I couldn't like quite figure out who and where and what. So that's where I started. And I started teaching gyrotonic private sessions first. And then after I did that for a couple of years, I um ended up going to the Kane School in New York City, which is a contemporary program that is very therapeutics focused. And I would say my joke about that program is that we didn't learn any exercises, we only learned theory and hands-on, and really like how to help someone go through the journey of like a change in their body. But that was a comprehensive 600-hour mat reformer, cadillac, chair, barrel, like the whole nine yards. And yeah, from there I taught private sessions for a lot of years prior to opening the studio.

SPEAKER_00

So you were doing you were working across a few studios as such?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, I uh I worked primarily during those years. I worked primarily at a studio called Chelsea Movement, RIP, no longer with us in Chelsea, obviously, in New York City. And I taught both gyrotonic and Pilates there for probably five, six years, and then probably five years, and then I went out on my own and what I would refer to as private practice. And I did that for another probably three years before opening the studio.

SPEAKER_00

And at that time, were you was there much group work out there, or was it mostly private when people did Pilates? What were you seeing? Everything was private.

SPEAKER_01

There were no, almost no group classes. There were, I remember at Chelsea, we had there were about five group classes a week on four reformers. So very, very limited. And it it really, it just wasn't the business. That's not what was happening.

SPEAKER_00

And did you always see yourself as a business owner or did that kind of come by chance?

SPEAKER_01

I think that I naturally was maybe opinionated and a little bit bossy. Like I remember, so I started I started front desk. So when I was working there, I would also started front desk while I was building up my clientele. And I remember Lucia, the studio owner, almost like teasing me because I was always giving away my clients. I was like, you know what? I see this person twice a week, but I really think they would be great working with you. And I was just like, that was my personality. In hindsight, it is kind of funny. She was like, What are you doing? And I was like, but like they're really gonna get along.

SPEAKER_00

Um so I think that. But I we actually had a conversation in my studio recently about I think more teachers should be a bit more like that. Maybe not giving the client away, but opening them up to other teachers, other classes, other environments that they know will help them because we're here to really guide our clients. And sometimes I think there can be a feeling of this is mine. That's not always the most helpful, is it? So it's interesting that you were like that. And you know, that's definitely the life of a studio owner. That's how it is. So it's interesting that you were doing that even in your early teaching days.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like I really observed that in my own training. It was I liked to work with a lot of different people because everyone has a different perspective. You learn something different from every teacher. And I personally just loved that.

SPEAKER_00

And what was the transition like then from becoming from being a teacher to becoming a studio owner? Oh, mayhem. Wild. What was the kind of catalyst that this users like, okay, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna what did that first look like?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I definitely got it in my head that I wanted to open a studio, and my vision was opening a reformer studio, but I also had my own private clients. So I was going to do both. And I just started looking at spaces like it was my full-time job and manifesting something that didn't necessarily seem real at the time. And I went to a few of my privates and basically explained to them. I was like, listen, this is what I am looking to do. And I would love to, I basically pre-sold them a ton of sessions. I was like, listen, I'm gonna give you a really hefty discount if you pre-buy two years of sessions. And I had a few people where I knew that economically that would be not like that big a deal for them. And I pitched it to them and I was like, listen, no pressure. You get a really nice discount if you're into it. And they were like, Yeah, totally, no big deal. Uh which was amazing and really blew me away. And that's how I got my initial seed money, and that's what I used to put down the deposit on the space.

SPEAKER_00

I think it's so smart to look to fund it without loans and personally without like equity partners. I I never wanted to do that. And I think it's a really clever way. Often, clients, if you know, if you've got that relationship with them and they are in that position, it can be an interesting model to use that to get you in with some cash flow.

SPEAKER_01

Totally. I mean, it definitely wasn't enough. And then I also, my boyfriend, now my husband, also then put money in and I used those things to leverage getting a loan because I couldn't have even gotten a loan. So really, it was mixing and matching all of these different ways of getting funding for that initial seed cash. So, where was that first studio and what did it look like? It was in Greenwich Village, which we then rebranded to West Village, basically because it just Greenwich was too long of a word. But and it was a basement space. It was definitely a humble beginning, let me say it that way.

SPEAKER_00

But I think you have to, I always think the property that you buy or rent, it has to be a clever let. Like there always has to be something about it because I personally I go and view lots of spaces and I look at the maths and I think this isn't gonna work. Totally. And I think there often is that. And I think to be able to, for your first one, to kind of look at it and say, okay, this, you know, this isn't gonna scare the bejesus out of me. Well, I mean, it still does, but you know, you're trying to be as sensible as you can be with it, Heather. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I also think the one thing that I'll say, I'll give myself credit for for being quite clever about, was that as a dancer, as a teacher, I'd spent so much time running around New York City, navigating the subways and just like getting around that I had a really good sense of how people move through the city. And that was something I really thought about in terms of placement. So it wasn't the nicest space, it was a basement, it was kind of a weird block, but it was so easy to get to via transportation and how people move around New York City. And I think that that's something that people maybe don't take into consideration enough. Sometimes your space, its ease of access, like how you get there might be more important than it being a showstopper, especially in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And so you had this basement space. What did it look like then? Did you get your group classes in there? Did you get your private space? Yes.

SPEAKER_01

So we ended up dividing the space in half, and I couldn't get the financing for all of the equipment that I wanted. So my initial vision was these reformer classes, but what I ended up with was enough equipment to run private sessions. And I ran math classes for the first year on the other side because I that's what I could afford to do. And then after about a year of paying off my equipment, I was able to go back to them and get additional financing and then ran uh and then I bought the additional reformers and started running reformer classes, which is what I had been trying to do from the beginning.

SPEAKER_00

And how did they go? What was it like in the beginning? You know, this was kind of a newer opportunity for clients as well. So how did how did that land?

SPEAKER_01

It was really interesting. I think it was one of those moments in life where I knew that it's what I wanted and I was excited about the idea. But there aren't that many moments in life where you do something and it just hits. And you look around and you're like, oh my God, I am selling something that everyone wants to buy. And especially growing up as a dancer, I'll say that I had a decade of inviting people to my dance performances. And people were like, I'm not going to that. I don't care. And for all of a sudden to be doing something where everyone was like, Oh my God, I want to come. Like, can I trade you for classes? What can I do? How can I get in? was a very exhilarating experience. And I knew right away, I was like, oh, this is a thing. And I definitely hadn't known that going in. I didn't know that in advance. And it was just a really special moment.

SPEAKER_00

And what did you focus on in the beginning? Was it the teaching? Was it the brand? Was it the business?

SPEAKER_01

I would say a miss of the brand. And I'll I'll plug my uh my husband now, my boyfriend then has a branding background. He was a DJ and also did like graphic design and branding. Those were his two simultaneous professions. And he I mean, he's amazing. He's amazing. And I am I'm so fortunate. But he was really able to bring a really unique perspective on the music and also really someone who's really good at branding, what they do is they take your vision and they bring it to life. And he is very good at branding. So he was really amazing at sort of extracting the qualities that I was looking for and bringing that vision to life. So I had him to really work on the branding. And what I focused on was the Pilates, finding the right teachers. And it was so early, and there wasn't really a culture of reformer classes. So it took a lot of trial and error for us. We tried a lot of things before really honing in on our method and developing what I would say is the consistency and quality that we're known for today.

SPEAKER_00

And what mistakes did you make early on? All of them. Me too. I think it's good to share that, isn't it? Because it is such a learning code. Like, there's no manual that tells you how to open a studio.

SPEAKER_01

Totally. There, first of all, there's literally no manual. And also, I think about this a lot if you come from like a dance, the dance world or the studio world, really, my only jobs outside of being a dancer was working in studios. So I understood the flow from like the front desk and what it feels like with the students and that. But people management, for instance, was not a skill that I had developed through my career at that point. Yes, to the way that you manage an in like an individual client, that is a very specific skill set of management and relationship building. But having employees and having to hold people accountable and give people feedback, that was a really tough learning curve for me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, it is, isn't it? And you know, it's all fine when things are good, but it is, I mean, myself included, you think I probably could have done that better today. Hopefully, I've learned from those experiences. So tell me a little bit about New York Pilates. What makes a class feel different? Explain what I would experience coming to your studios.

SPEAKER_01

So we're a contemporary Pilates studio, and we really hold true to what I would describe as Pilates principles. So that's where that's our perspective, that's where we're coming from. Starting with breath and focusing on form, alignment, control, flow are Pilates principles. And then from a class structure standpoint, we we always begin with a few TDA breaths. So spending a moment, just finding your breath, finding that coordination between your abs and your diaphragm. And then we move into, we have a few different rounds of exercises and we structure it with long sets of repetitions. And the purpose of that is to give everyone an opportunity to like figure out what the exercise is and give the teacher time to go around the room and give individual feedback and corrections. And a few other things that I think are really unique to what we do is every exercise is prevent is presented with both modifications and advancements, and then also spring tension options. So those are some of the innovations we've come to over the years to really make it a personalized experience for everyone in the room because not everyone is ready for the same variation of an exercise. Someone needs an advancement, someone might need a modified version. And we really try and create that ability to personalize your experience for everyone.

SPEAKER_00

And I wonder a question that comes up quite often on the podcast is around this, you know, definition of styles of Pilates and you know, potential namings that we maybe need to come up with. But even going into the classical and contemporary, I'm starting to realize that even in the years since I've opened my studio, that that definition has perhaps changed or has changed with what clients are expecting now. And obviously, you're in the home of Pilates and you're in the home of kind of the Romana, classical Pilates. And then, you know, we're we're realizing that, well, classical Pilates is not just Romana style, there's others. And then in this day and age, it feels like contemporary can mean quite far away from the principles. And so I wondered how you felt about that. And are you seeing that as well? Because I, you know, I was always trained that we were contemporary, but with kind of classical roots and ethos and principles. And then now when I go to certain studios, they'll say things to me like, oh, we're not classical, meaning kind of the method, and in the way that you've sort of described it, to be honest. So I wondered in New York, what is the conversation around this? And are you seeing that as well?

SPEAKER_01

Okay, first of all, 100% agree with you, but I think it's because people are confused.

SPEAKER_00

That's my opinion. Well, I think they are confused. And you even mentioned about education. You mentioned about your, you know, at your time looking at education, you were confused. God help us if we look now. It's really hard. So what are you seeing in that confusion? Are you seeing a confusion from clients? So, you know, what are what are you seeing out there?

SPEAKER_01

What I'm seeing out there, and I'll say kind of like how I see it in my mind, and then also how what I'm seeing out there. So, how I see it in my mind is there's OG classical. And to me, what that means is they are following the classical order of the exercises. They're doing the classical versions of the exercises, maybe modifying to help people get in and out of them, but like the base of that exercise is the classical version of it. And generally, that also means that the baseline of what's happening in the pelvis and supine exercises is going to be a posterior pelvic tilt. Not always, but most of the time, from what I've seen. To me, those are the defining factors that make it classical. This is also my opinion, just putting that out there.

SPEAKER_00

But I but I think that that that's kind of how I Mostly understood it as well.

SPEAKER_01

So then for contemporary Pilates, what makes it Pilates is that you're still very tied to those Pilates principles. So breath, flow, coordination, control, concentration. Sometimes there's a sixth in different versions of these. And then it's rooted there. And then you take the classical exercises, and there are adaptations of them. So in how I approach it, we're taking those classical exercises, maybe breaking them down to their component parts, using those component parts as individual exercises, and then layering them on top of each other. And then also taking exercises from different pieces of equipment. So maybe adapting a mat exercise onto the reformer, or adapting Cadillac exercises onto the reformer. And then occasionally also just making up something totally different that maybe is related to these things or is an adaptation of a gym workout, but presented in a way that is rooted in those Pilates principles. So it's about alignment, how you're using your core, how you're using your breath, et cetera. And that's what makes it Pilates, in my opinion. So to me, that's what lives in contemporary. And then I think there's a whole nother category of things that I would refer to as Pilates adjacent. And what I would put in that category would be library and like sculpt classes that use a few Pilates concepts, but are not overall rooted in the Pilates method.

SPEAKER_00

And it's tricky, isn't it? Because all of this stuff is often just called reformer Pilates. Yes. And you know, me and you could sit here and dissect this and have slightly different opinions and even with our experience. So it is confusing. And are you seeing that with clients that clients are confused about this?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, they're like, what's going on here? This is all called Pilates, and I'm having wildly different experiences.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And so did that feel like when you're now, you know, now you're past your first studio, you've expanded. Are you sort of seeing that you have to think about how you present yourself and talk about yourself and the content that you put out there? Do you feel like that's part of what's needed now to kind of cut through this noise? A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's interesting too, it's changed a lot over the years. So in 2014, 15, 16, in those years, I think we spent a lot of time getting people to want to do Pilates because people's perception of Pilates is that it was slow, that it was easy, that it was always therapeutic in focus. So we spent a lot of time being like, we are cool, or like we have cool music. It's like vibe, this and that. And now it's almost like the other side of the coin where we're spending our time and energy being like, we are focused on the principles of Pilates. We're going to train you on how to use your core, how to use your breath, how to find your alignment. That's what you're going to find here because the vibe side of it is most of what you're getting in the Pilates adjacent world.

SPEAKER_00

And I think it would be so interesting if we agreed on some names for all of these. So that clients, I don't know. I don't know if that would be maybe a solution. Maybe we could never agree, but that would be the challenge.

SPEAKER_01

What I've been hearing recently that I I am not opposed to is people referring to traditional Pilates as opposed to, I don't know what they're calling. Well, I'm calling Pilates adjacent or Legris.

SPEAKER_00

But then there are some traditional Pilates that is very athletic, but it's still traditional Pilates. And then it's funny, isn't it, how you're kind of talking about you know your studio with its cool music and the vibes, and then now suddenly that's traditional. It's just an interesting conversation, I think. And I'm not sure the answer to it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, totally. It is it. I I totally agree with you. I think it it's a confusing space for sure. I think that's the one thing I've heard where I'm like, okay, I'll take that. I'm not offended by it.

SPEAKER_00

So talk to me a bit, Heather, about expanding. You've had you won studio, you were in the basement, you had your math classes, you added Reformer in. What took you from that to thinking, I want to expand?

SPEAKER_01

I think number one, hands down, was just there was so much energy, and people were really excited about it. And I was like, I'm excited. And how many studios do you have now? We have eight. We're about to open nine, which is for this summer in Sack Harbor, and we're working on a giant build, which will be number 10, which is on the Upper A side.

SPEAKER_00

And so tell me, when how long into your journey did the second studio come about?

SPEAKER_01

I would say about two years in. I we opened in 2013. I think that we signed the lease in probably the spring of 2015 and got open by November of 2015.

SPEAKER_00

And what was the journey like then? Was there any of those like the numbers of studios where you really started to notice that the team structure just didn't work? I've certainly been in this place where you're like, oh, what worked no longer works. 100%.

SPEAKER_01

100%. And how did you handle that? I, as best I could, I would say I would handle it a lot better today, with you know, another decade of experience under my belt. But we just figured it out. There were definitely a lot of opinions coming in. And I think that one of the things I struggled with was that we had a close-knit team. We were, we were friends. And that having to make that delineation between we are friends, but also this is my business and I'm the boss and I'm making the decisions. That was tough for people because they felt very invested to the point where they felt like it was theirs, also, which has some good things, but also when I would make a decision that maybe not everyone agreed with, that people get really upset. Um, an example of that would be at the time we really like set the music program, there were so many opinions about that, and setting a consistent volume and setting a consistent a consistent style and determining that Brian, that's my husband business partner, was making the playlists and the playlists were preset, like those kinds of things which were really helpful for overall consistency of experience. And for some teachers, they loved it. They're like, great, I don't have to worry about the music anymore. And then other teachers were like, I would like to listen to at the time Britney Spears, which was not the not a brand fit for us. So some things like that definitely were contentious. And there were a few moments where I had to show up and be like, hey, this is what's happening. I understand if you don't like it, you have the choice to be here or not, but I don't because I own this business. So this is what's happening.

SPEAKER_00

It's hard, isn't it? I mean, say, my my team is very close-knit. And you have this amazing opportunity when you run your own business that within reason, you I mean, you don't work with difficult people because you don't have to. It's not like when you're in the corporate world and you have to kind of put up with them. So you do become close. But absolutely, sometimes I have to say, I'm so sorry, I'm putting my boss hat on now because that's my job. And I think people get it, but it's, you know, it is hard. Um, how do you ensure that consistency across those studios? Whether that's consistency in the teaching, but I also find, you know, in the management and the sales process and the membership support and things like that, like there's a whole operation, isn't there, alongside the teaching part of it. So I'd love some advice on how you've managed that, Heather.

SPEAKER_01

I would say there's a moment when your entire life becomes building systems. And I'll just give you my take on this. This is my experience. And I don't know if my take and my method will work for everyone else, but I'll tell you what works for me is when I am working on a challenge, let's say inconsistency across sound volume. Let's just keep the same example. The first thing is going in personally and identifying what works. And this might be going into every single location, listening to the sound, checking it on the decibel reader, and going through the process. And it can't just be in one location because it sounds different everywhere. You have to go to every single location and decide what the standard is going to be. And then once you have that standard, you have to come up with a system of checks and balances for maintaining that. And then you have to use the system yourself and make sure it works. And then once you've identified that the system works, then you can roll it out across the team. And then you have to create a system of accountability, checks and balances to make sure people are doing it. And I think the other piece of that is like the change management aspect of it, which is really getting people on board. You they have to they have to understand the why. You have to get them on your team to make this happen, understand why it's important, why it's important to you, why it's important to the student experience. And if they're not on your team, then that's the moment you say, hey, I this might not be a fit. Maybe you shouldn't work here if you don't like what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00

And I think, you know, it's it's great to sort of explain that. And for the sound, that makes absolute sense, right? And you can imagine you figure that out. There's a system, it's somebody's job to check, and that's right. How do you bring in the same approach to say teaching? How, where are the checks and balances for that? How are you managing that?

SPEAKER_01

I feel like I spend so much, I have spent so much time working on the systems around teacher training, onboarding, and quality management. And it is, to me, it is the backbone of the entire business is the consistency of experience and the quality of the instructors. And it's no easy feat, especially in a world where you're potentially hiring instructors who are trained through all sorts of different training programs. And what they learn in those training programs can be wildly different from each other. And if you have things that you expect. So we spend a lot of resources on onboarding and training, and I would say continuing education in general. We spend a lot of resources on it.

SPEAKER_00

And I think it's so needed. We do, we do too. And I think, you know, what does your onboarding process look like? Because you're absolutely right. It's the reality of the world we're in that people come from different teacher training schools. And even if you were like, I really like this one teacher training school, what I've learned is not all teachers qualified from them are the same. And you can have somebody who's actually done maybe what you consider a poorer training, but the person is phenomenal. And their drive and their ethos matches yours. So you're absolutely right. They have to come in. And then how do you get them to where you need them to be? What's that look like?

SPEAKER_01

So we've gone through a hundred different methods of this over the years. I think it is a lot of trial and error. Try you try something out, and you have to be really ready to look at what you made and have no ego about it. Be like, okay, this worked. This part didn't work. Scrap that. Let's try something else. And then you kind of have to have people go through the whole, the whole system and then see how they turn out at the end, and then be like, okay, we're still doing great on the original thing. We made a small improvement on the thing we were trying to fix, but not enough. So like you go back to the beginning and you have to like rework it and see if you can get better. So what we're doing now is we have we have a series of pre-programmed classes that we have new onboarding instructors learn how to teach, and they have to successfully complete teaching them from A to Z with all of the details. And it's very detailed work, and it is it's it is our own method in certain ways, the way that we're asking people to offer modifications and advancements and cue the breath and offer spring options. There are a lot of things we're asking them to do that maybe they weren't trained to do in their original training. So it is even for experienced instructors, a journey to get there. And they need to successfully teach five full classes of in the method before then they go into co-teaching and then can go on the schedule.

SPEAKER_00

And it's so interesting hearing you talk about that, Heather, because I think it's no wonder the studio has been successful in the sense that you've got this ethos and you've got this consistency of delivery, and then you've got a system for how you onboard them. And I, like you said, then the learning never stops. It almost goes back to traditional Pilates, where I think if you are in that mindset, we understand that this you never know it all. And I love that. I love the fact that there's so much learning to this work. But I do think that I got asked a question the other day, which I thought was a really great question. What does it mean to be a qualified teacher? And I thought that is an interesting question because it can mean a lot of different things because big differences in the trainings that are out there and what a, you know, you've got a certificate, but the competence levels are different. And I actually think that studios have a bigger part to play in this than I'm not saying the educators don't as well, but I think the studios like yours, where it's clear, because that also helps drive the standards of the education up. People know if they want to come and work for a studio like yours, what you expect. But also to not ever pull someone up on how they got into this work and to be able to support them. So it sounds like you've got this onboarding process and you have kind of maybe senior instructors who are, you know, supporting them, mentoring them. And then with the CPD, is that stuff you're you're putting on yourself within your team, or are you bringing people in from externally to run those?

SPEAKER_01

For the continuing education, we're primarily doing internal continuing ed. And a lot of it is focused around the specific competencies that we're we're asking for and looking for. And then also what comes up. So we do a monthly instructor meeting, and the topic of that meeting will change just depending on what's going on. So a few months ago, we did an overhaul on certain exercises that maybe are instable or were of a fall risk. And we made some certain like changes across the board. I'll give an example of that is chest expansion, kneeling, facing the risers, holding on to either the knots or the short straps. Our baseline version of the exercise has been kneeling, and we actually changed the baseline of the version version of the exercise to be seated within bringing people to kneeling as an advancement because it is a fall risk exercise. So, some things like that where we'll go through and make changes based on what we're seeing in the world.

SPEAKER_00

And it's great to have that, you know, your instructors to have that voice to be able, because they're on the literally doing this work day in, day out. They're they're seeing it, and to be able to bring that into the programming sounds really good. I wanted to talk to you, Heather, about pricing. How did you approach pricing at the beginning? And has your view on that shifted over the years?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I would say when we very first started, we, as I said, we in that very first year, we didn't do full reformer classes because I didn't, I couldn't afford all the equipment. So I think in that first year we did trios, reformer trios, and that's where we sort of initially established the price. And I think the following year when we moved into reformer classes, I probably would have dropped the price, but class pass had entered the scene. And the way back then, I don't know how they do it now, we're no longer on ClassPass post-COVID, but the way that they established your pricing back then was they would take your 10-pack rate and then pay you 50% of that. So that initial negotiation happened based on our trio rates. And then I was like, no, I can't change the price because I'm not gonna make enough money. And so I actually think that that created a little bit of a price inflation at that moment because they were undercutting so substantially.

SPEAKER_00

And now you're in such a competitive market. Do you see that kind of, you know, I'm wondering if you think that Pilates teacher as Pilates teachers are undervaluing themselves, um, or if you're seeing even studio to studio, is their price competition or you know, somewhere like where you are, what does that look like now?

SPEAKER_01

I think it's listen, it's the wild west out there. It is crazy, it's crazy times. Um I I see so much variant variance. I think the thing I actually see a lot is people charging very expensive membership rates, but then filling their studios with class pass. And I think that is really interesting because I I think they're not driving loyalty and would make more money and have a higher quality experience if they like adjusted the prices so that it gave more incentive for people to become loyal members. I think it would improve the overall experience.

SPEAKER_00

It it improves the experience, it also improves the experience of the teachers. This is something that we hear a lot because the teachers love that they're teaching regular clients as opposed to transient clients coming in and out. So I totally get that. And I think there's such an art to pricing, isn't there? To kind of get it right and to understand, you know, the class passes, the competitors, but also to realize your competitor might not be making any money. So don't, you know, people can often open their studios today. And with the, you know, the internet and everything that we've got now, they can just be like, oh, I'm gonna look at what they're pricing and I'll I'll charge similar or I'll charge less. And they don't do their maths.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, totally. And I think that your pricing needs to be related to the business that you are running. So if you only have six reformers, then you might need a different pricing structure than a studio that has 18 reformers. And that is just you have to be able to pay your teachers.

SPEAKER_00

So and I think that's really hard. I what I see a lot of is studios that are sort of five, six, seven pieces of equipment charging the same as my studio has 12. Yeah. And I have a studio that has a a seven class. I have an equipment studio where we do like an equipment circuit. And because I can't be bothered with another pricing model on the website, because that's a challenge, then we charge the same, but the capacity is seven versus twelve and the margins are tight. And so we kind of can't pay the same as if it's 12 people in a class as if it's seven. And but and so I think it's but I think that's being dominated by this if the smaller studios, if there was an understanding that you should charge more.

SPEAKER_01

And I think also in that position, I think that I would position that as like small group private. Yeah. So that you can have a like a clear delineation between the two.

SPEAKER_00

I think that makes sense. Can I ask you, Heather, do you have any like expansion beyond your studio like in-person experiences? Are you doing anything outside of the studio?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, like every, like everyone during COVID, we did some online content. We haven't really that is still available and it exists as like a weird art project slash DVD on the internet. That's like mine. I'm so proud of it, but it sort of just existed in this little window. It's cool. I'm very proud of it, but we're not like continuously working on it because I think the focus for us really is the in person experience. That's what I love.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I remember when I came back after COVID, I think I don't know if it's the same for you. We were close for a long time in the UK. And I think everyone just thought, I'll convert my garage or a spare bedroom and I'll just teach. And I get that because we got very insular, hadn't we? But I remember the first time we opened the studio back up, I was like, I love people and I love in-person experiences. Like, that's my thing. I'm not massively an online person, I don't think. Because I think it is, it's a skill in itself, isn't it? And the amount of work that goes into it. And you have to, if you wanted to do it well, I think now you'd have to treat it like a whole separate studio with a team and the amount of work that would go into it.

SPEAKER_01

And like you're then you're working in video production. You're not really working in like human experiences, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00

And I love your social media content though. Um, I think it's really interesting because I, you know, I enjoyed having a little look through it and seeing you, you know, like we talked about earlier in this world of the sexier, the crazier, the better, you know, and I get it because it's it's kind of how the algorithm works. And it's really interesting to talk to guests who are huge online but say, I don't teach this in real life. And yet maybe new teachers don't understand that. But it's really refreshing to see a lot of your content, Heather, which was kind of like, you know, this is what this exercise is about. Let's make sure that we're aligned in the right way and that we understand how to do it. Was that intentional?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And I would say that that's something that has changed drastically over the years. Like if you look at New York Pilates social media content from 2016, it is, they are beautiful art pieces. Our most athletic and or flexible instructors doing feats of strength. And we've had a lot of conversations about this, where that will continue to get you clicks, but in a world, this circles all the way back to the beginning, in a world where people are really confused about what Pilates is or isn't, and they're trying to understand what we bring to the table. We've really changed our positioning to be we are actual Pilates, we're going to teach you alignment, we're going to teach you breath. And we still, especially on the New York Pilates account, mix in a little bit of chaos for fun and the algorithm. But I've definitely on my personal account chosen to show what it's actually like in class, what we're actually teaching. Because the thing is that real change in your body happens from grounded, consistent work. And doing the splits in a handstand is not accessible for most people and is not going to yield you the results that you want. It is an entertaining feed of strength. But that's not what Pilates is about.

SPEAKER_00

I always joke on my teacher trainings, you know, we'll be doing one of the more foundational exercises. And when the students start to understand the depth of the work, you know, they're like, oh my goodness, I didn't know this is what this was about. And this feels so intense. And I always joke, but you don't see this on social media because it doesn't, it it kind of looks like nothing. It's kind of, I guess, where that opinion of Pilates is easy came from. Because it doesn't, some of the really fundamental stuff that certainly changed my body isn't very sexy to look at, actually. It's quite straightforward, but it's powerful and it shifts something in your life.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think it's very interesting. It's like the real work is internal. And so it's hard to capture it on camera.

SPEAKER_00

And I think that is such a good point that you make, is that is hard to market, isn't it? In an aesthetics-driven environment where harder is felt that it's always better in the fitness world. That the internal journey, because when I ask people on the podcast, you know, what did Pilates give you? Nobody says anything aesthetic ever. Ever. They say, I got to know myself, I really, you know, it's deep things. And I think such a big part of it is it slowed us down, actually, in a very busy world. And that was really powerful. So it's really nice to see you bringing that through because I don't think, honestly, Heather, I don't think many people with your kind of following, kind of numbers, are actually talking about that. They are very much going for the let's do a backwards roll-off or reformer or something.

SPEAKER_01

It's a funny thing. I feel like I built my initial social media following in like 2016, 2018 in a very different world. And I positioned myself as more of an influencer back then. And then I actually kind of went dark on social media for a couple of years. I was like, I'm over this. I hate being an influencer. And as I've re-engaged in social media, I the reason I have done that is because I feel like we need more people talking about like what's actually happening in Pilates and why it's actually good for you. And actually talking about some of the things that are less sexy. And it's been a little bit of a journey for me trying to figure out how to make it engaging. How do I, it's like it is, it's lower, it's less views.

SPEAKER_00

It's not as sexy. That's so interesting, isn't it? But I I was gonna, so it might be less views, but do you find that people engage with it? Because when I was looking through it, I was like, this, I mean, it resonated with my studio's ethos and my personal ethos as well.

SPEAKER_01

I I think that that is exactly it. Is it's like a change in strategy towards going deep and niche on something that I'm personally really passionate about instead of trying to get the most views possible. And I think that is I think that's also the strategy we're taking with the studio, too. We're trying to be really genuine and really passionate about something that I care about a lot. And you don't have to be everything to everyone, but really like niching hard into what we're obsessed with.

SPEAKER_00

And I think these days, the niche of let's use that traditional Pilates word, because I think it's quite a good one, that has become a niche, actually, which I don't think we should, you know, worry about. Like let those other people do their thing. And I think some of that stuff, you know, I've actually had some really interesting conversations with people in those worlds. And you're like, you know, we can all learn from each other. But it's to understand that, yeah, this is a niche in itself, actually, in a world of innovation, not to be so stuck in it has to always be like this. It's you can still evolve, don't get me wrong. But sort of sticking close to the ethos.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And two, the other thing that I've been really working on in like some self-work here is having no judgment towards what's happening over there. Like you're having fun. That's amazing. You're enjoying yourself, you're having a great time. That's wonderful. If you get injured, we're over here. But enjoy, have fun, live your life, and no judgment. It that's great. It isn't Pilates, but it's it's great. And do you and enjoy it?

SPEAKER_00

You're moving, you're exercising. That's good for you, right? You know, it's just something different. Heather, I'd love just to end our conversation with some quickish fire questions, if I may. Uh, what is your favorite Pilates exercise?

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, I'm a bridging girl through and through. Me too. I do a bridge every day. It's like, for me, it just ticks every box. I love a bridge. I know. It's funny because it's like it's so simple and it's so grounded, and it just like it lengthens your spine, it gets your glutes. We're trying to keep the keep that butt up.

SPEAKER_00

Love. I love it. I love it when I'm like, you know, staying away from home and you're in a maybe not so comfortable bed, and you do a bridge and you just everything like quick cracks back into place, and you're like, oh, it's delicious. It's lovely. Um, is there a cue you find yourself coming back to time and time again?

SPEAKER_01

A cue I love is around your transverse app engagement. And I love the cue of hugging it around your organs. What do you think makes a great teacher? A great teacher really connects with the students in the room and not just on a personality level, but sees them, assesses their alignment, and gives them genuine, really helpful feedback.

SPEAKER_00

Is there a mistake that you see new studio owners make?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, there's so many things I could say. I think. Sorry, I have to think about this one.

SPEAKER_00

It's not exactly rapid fire. I'm thinking about it too long. No, no, no. Well, you can think about it because I think it's I actually think it's I forgot I wrote that one down. It's quite an interesting question.

SPEAKER_01

My actual struggle is I have 17 things to say. What one one thing am I going to say? I think that new studio owners should come to it with a really clear personal perspective and not try and copy the other things they're seeing out there.

SPEAKER_00

I think that is such a good point. I think copying and also not going into it with a sort of belief ethos. Like, what am I trying to create other than Pilates? Because I think that's where I see lots of studios opening and they, you know, go back to what we said earlier. You've got all the teachers, different trainings, different ways of doing things, and they let them all come in and be an absolute mishmash, which I that's fine, but I'm not sure it's the greatest client experience personally. That oh my God.

SPEAKER_01

I actually have something I like to say about this, which is that's like going to an open format DJ set where it's like you're listening to Holland Oaks, and then like five minutes later, you're listening to like MIA. And you're like, these things don't go together. The obviously my old references, but like, which is a very different experience than if you are going to a DJ set that has like a clear perspective. Like you know that you're going in and you're listening to reggae.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And it's like you said earlier, it's I don't want a studio personally full of me. That wouldn't be great for the client, but I want there to be a belief, an ethos, a way of teaching things we say, maybe things we don't say, things we all agree on, so that clients don't get confused because one teacher passionately says something and another teacher passionately says something else. Because that does happen in our world. So I I see that maybe made as a mistake. What has Pilates given you personally, Heather?

SPEAKER_01

I think the most profound thing that it gave me was a really deep understanding of my alignment. And coming coming from a baby ballerina background, I think that I had some substantial misalignments that were complete blind spots for me, and that was really transformational and also impacts all parts of my life. It impacts carrying a heavy bag, walking down the street, it impacts how I get in and out of a car, it impacts picking up a heavy box, it impacts all sorts of daily actions. But I think that was really profound and transformational for me.

SPEAKER_00

And I always think it's so interesting because you would sort of see somebody who can dance at your caliber and think you absolutely understand your body. And you know, but it's interesting how Pilates first kind of came into the dance world mostly. And even for people like yourself, you got that. So no wonder the average person like myself and most of our clients, you know, this it lands deep, doesn't it? This work. 100%. Well, Heather, it's been an absolute joy to talk to you. Thank you so much for coming on Beyond the Reformer. I am gonna have to do a trip to New York. I was thinking this recently, and have to come see your studios. So um, yeah, it's been a joy. We will put links to your socials in the show notes that people can follow you. Because I think, yeah, I think the content's great and I think we could, you know, we could all do with a bit more of that. So thank you so much. Fabulous. Thank you so much. This is an absolute pleasure. A big thank you to Heather for joining me in today's conversation. I hope that you enjoyed that and got something out of it. Do drop me a DM on our Instagram. I pick them all up personally. I love hearing how you're listening to the podcast on your walks, on your commutes, how you've made it part of your life. It is really amazing to see how we are building this community together. So do drop me a line on there, share my stories. It really helps the podcast grow. And I will see you all again next week on Monday for another episode of Beyond the Reformer.