Beyond the Reformer

Stop Copying Other Pilates Teachers and Start Being Yourself with Lesley Logan

• Nic Lenny • Season 5 • Episode 52

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In this episode, Nic is joined by Lesley Logan, a classical Pilates teacher, international presenter, fellow podcaster, and founder of Profitable Pilates and Online Pilates Classes.


They explore what it really takes to become a great Pilates teacher, from developing the ability to observe bodies and cue effectively, to navigating imposter syndrome and finding your unique voice in the industry.


They unpack the importance of having boundaries and also the current state of the Pilates industry, including gaps in teacher training, the need for mentorship, and why rushing into teaching too quickly can hold people back long term.


They also go deeper into the business side of Pilates, from pricing and profitability to building a career that actually supports your life.


Timestamps

00:00 Intro to Lesley Logan

01:32 Boundaries, burnout, and learning to say no

09:59 What’s happening in the Pilates industry right now

13:22 Gaps in teacher training and education

15:25 Learning how to truly see bodies as a teacher

18:49 Lesley’s journey into Pilates

26:09 Helping clients build autonomy in their practice

30:52 Owning your unique method and voice

40:26 Pricing for sustainability and growth

45:37 What accessibility really means in Pilates

50:52 Why mentorship keeps great teachers

54:05 Building multiple revenue streams

57:35 Quick-fire questions

59:15 Where to find Lesley


If you’re enjoying the podcast, make sure you’re following along so you don’t miss future episodes. And feel free to share this one with someone you think would take something from it.


Connect with Nic:


Connect with Lesley:



Get 5% off Balanced Body Pilates equipment with the code SOUL PILATES 

SPEAKER_01

Coming up on today's episode of Beyond the Reformer.

SPEAKER_00

There are way too many business owners who don't know what Pilates is, who own Pilates businesses. And that is what Pilates is getting from.

SPEAKER_01

My guest today is Leslie Logan, classical Pilates teacher, international presenter, fellow podcaster, founder of Profitable Pilates, and the creator of onlinepilates.com.

SPEAKER_00

I think it's important that we, as teachers, educate people why are these exercises more than just a workout? We can't judge what brings people into Pilates, whether it's teaching or doing it. We have to meet people where they are. Setting up an exercise is not a cue. It's direction. I find it interesting how few people really teach them at. There's too many people who don't think that they're worthy of charging actual money for the services that they're providing. Too many people think if I lower my prices, that's what makes me accessible, but that's not what makes you accessible.

SPEAKER_01

Hello and welcome back to Beyond the Reformer. I'm Nick Lenny, a studio owner, a Pilates teacher, educator, and your host for these conversations, exploring the people and ideas shaping the Pilates world today. I was so excited to record today's episode. I recently met Leslie in Los Angeles, and honestly, I've been trying to get her on the podcast from long before that, really since the very beginning. She is constantly traveling the world, teaching and presenting. So it's taken a little while to find a date and a time that worked. But this conversation was absolutely worth the wait. And I hope you enjoy it. Before we dive in, I've just got a quick favor to ask. I ask every week, but if you are enjoying these conversations, the way that you can kind of thank me really is just to take a moment to like, follow, or subscribe wherever you're listening or watching. It's a small thing, but it really helps the podcast grow. It allows me to keep bringing these guests and allows these conversations to keep happening. Okay, let's get into today's conversation. Leslie Logan, welcome to Beyond the Reformer. What a joy to have you on today. Thank you so much for joining me. Oh, I'm honored. This is gonna be so much fun. Well, we've been trying to do this for a while. You are a busy lady.

SPEAKER_00

You know, okay, I am busy. But I like to, I like to give permission to people that it's okay to have boundaries in place that make you seem busier than you are. I have been wanting to do this interview with you since the first email. But I also know how much I have to get done so that I can have breaks. And so I just have to honor that. And so it it I come off much busier than I really am.

SPEAKER_01

But I respect that because I think it's such a good point, isn't it? Boundaries are, and they're hard to enforce, aren't they? It's even sometimes hard to know what your boundaries are in the first place to be able to enforce them.

SPEAKER_00

Nick, you're so right. I mean, like, here's the thing: I wasn't always someone who had boundaries. I definitely have had to grow into understanding those things. And it came from burnout. It came from uh burnout um in multiple times of my life and and realizing that I can't keep blaming other people if I'm the one who lets them take advantage of the greatness that I have. And so, you know, it took me a while into my adult life to figure that out. But what it allows me to do is just have the energy to be as present as I can be in everything I say yes to. Because here's what I'm gonna do: I'm gonna give 120% in everything I do. So because I know how much I'm going to give when I say yes, I can't say yes when I think, oh my God, that that day is gonna be really hard for me to be as present as I want to be. And I hope that that gives people permission. Also, like I'm over 40 now. And let me tell you, the my perimenopause is different than everyone else's. It uh it revealed that I am the ADHD one in the family. And it has been its own number of like, how do I be myself, the person I know I am, and do all these things and also go through this journey that my body is going through, whether I want to or not.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I hear you, sister. And a question I get from people a lot is I didn't expect to start here today, but let's talk about boundaries because I think it's a really good, it's a really good topic. I get asked all the time, like, but how do you enforce them? Don't you just feel like a bit of a dick to people saying no? But I think it goes, and you do, I think. I think if you're the sort of person who's used to saying yes, it's really hard. But where did you go to to even realize what you need? Because it makes sense that you burn out because you are, I've met you in person. Like you do give more than yourself. I do too, but we we're prone to burn out if you're that kind of person. So, where did you start to try and figure out what is needed for you to, I guess, to recover from these things that you're doing?

SPEAKER_00

A couple things. One, I'm really grateful for the jobs that I had leading them into my Pilates career because they had firm boundaries that I had to enforce to customers. So I can touch on like how did I learn boundaries in that way? Having worked for a boutique business when everyone is, oh, like Nordstrom's is like, return whatever you want. Of course, you could have worn those shoes and still return them and we'll give you cash back. You don't have a receipt. And I worked for a boutique that was like, you're an initial on this receipt that it's a 30-day exchange of store credit only. Thanks so much. Right. So I had to learn from another company. It was my job to enforce those policies. So that helped me enforce policies in my Palaise business. But learning what I needed for self-care, for recovery, for what that time commitment is. This is gonna be hard for the perfectionists who are listening. And I see you because you're you're a Pali's instructor. So we we are a magnet for those people. Highly sensitive, highly empathetic, and perfectionist people. So I had to write down every single thing that I thought would help me feel better. All the ideas. People say you should journal, people say you should meditate, people say you should work up. Write them all down. And then I gave myself blocks of time where I would look at this long list and go, which one of these things feels good to me? And then I would try it out. And there are things that work really great for me that don't work good for other people. And there are things that don't work for me that people are obsessed about meditating. I'm gonna tell you right now, I can't do that. A guided breath work session, absolutely. But just sitting still with my thoughts, are you? I'm an Aquarius with ADHD. That is torture. You are like literally like, what secrets do you want to know? I'll give them to you. How do I get out of this mess? So I will say, like, I can't tell you what you'll need to make sure you don't hit burnout, but I can say that that system really worked for me. And then it comes into understanding how habits are truly created and what kind of morning routine do you need and nighttime routine. And these are hugely important. I don't care if you were like, I like to live on the whim. I like everything to be free, be a hippie. I'm doing this call with you at it at my 8 a.m. Typically, I do not work until 9:15. I get up at five and from five to nine fifteen, I can do whatever I want. And I have routines that I allow myself to take the time they need to take in that space. So I don't feel rushed. But it took time, you know, it took me many, many years. And also, it will change. The things that worked for me in my 30s are not what's working for me in my early 40s. You have to know yourself to realize, oh, this has been going on a little longer. This isn't working. And I think that that's hard to recognize, like, oh, my tools aren't working anymore. You know, because we think, oh, I nailed it. Okay, I've got it. It's an evolving cycle.

SPEAKER_01

And then it changes. And in uh my teacher training courses, we talk about like what things refill your cup. That's what you're talking about. They're different for everybody. And actually, you know, the question is, how many of them are you doing? And most people are like, like, none of them. And it's like, well, we can't give in this work if we don't do that. And I think you're right. If you then figure that out, I loved, I saw an Instagram post you put up and it was all your blocks of time. And I was like, this is what I need in my life. And then you know, don't you, this is when I, you know, what I can do. And I'm very grateful that you squeezed me in at 8 a.m. Cause I know like that's your one of your boundaries.

SPEAKER_00

You had your boundaries. Like, I can't go later. This is the time. So I think like this is it's it's good to advocate for yourself and then know where you can push and pull. So, what do I have after this? Literally nothing. So if I want to go back to something I need to do, if I didn't get enough, did I go to bed earlier last night? Absolutely. Like, I think this is where we have to recognize that we're human beings, not human doings. And I don't know that's cliche, but it's true. And it's really easy to just keep going, going, going. And it might surprise people, but like I know that I recharge alone. So I married a man who stays up late at night and does not get up in the morning. He is asleep right now. I have the whole morning to myself, and he has the whole night to himself, and we get to have these separate lives, and it works for us, but you have to, it just takes time, understanding who you are, and then you have to advocate that. You have to tell people who love you. This is what I need to be there for you.

SPEAKER_01

I realized that recently about that alone thing. I have a friend, and we often will go to a spa on a Monday, and it's this lovely. Uh, but I don't actually feel particularly refreshed and I couldn't work out. And then my team actually bought me a gift card to the same spa. I realized it was about to expire. I thought I'm gonna have to go on my own. I have no, and I went and I felt so different just sitting. And look, whether there's a neurodiversity, which also I'm kind of exploring, but we also talk all day for a living. Like, not many people do that. So I just realized that it's really nice to be able to sit in silence, whether that's just watching some TV or like, you know, that's I've realized that as well. And of course, that's hard in our lives sometimes if we're teaching in studios.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And here's the thing like I, oh my god, I live in LA and I have a favorite spa. So whenever I'm in LA, I literally go to this spa and I have tons of friends who want to go to that spa with me. And I will go, okay, what time are we all doing our services? Okay, what time are you showing up? And I will get there an hour before them, or I will stay an hour after them. Yes, that requires even more of my day, but I know what I need to be refreshed and I know what I need to be a friend for people. And, you know, some people might say that's high maintenance, or they might even say, well, Leslie, we don't have children, so like it's nice for you. I think that the best thing as a parent is to show your child how to care for themselves by actually showing them how you care for yourself. Um, I have a friend who's five children and she says, actions are caught, not taught. And I learned from my parents that if you give up everything all of the time for everybody else, you're hangry, angry, and not as present. And so love them very much, but they weren't the kindest present people with me as a as I was a child. They were irritated and crazy and mad. And so I had to learn it the hard way because I had to go through myself and go, wow, I sound like my parents. I don't have a child. How do I? So I think it's like there's a happy medium, there's a difference between an infant and a kid at school. But I think this is where you gotta learn the seasons of your life and what fills your cup in those seasons. I just want to empower people to do that because every time you make an excuse as why you can't, you're basically arguing for the burnout that you're in. I love that.

SPEAKER_01

I'd like to change tact a little bit. I'd like to circle back around to Pilates. You, I mean, you literally travel the world. This is why you need to have those boundaries in place, right? You travel the world. I see your name pop up all over the place. You're working and teaching, you know, teachers, studio owners. From everything that you're seeing right now in the Pilates world, what do you think we're getting really right? And is there anything that you're seeing that the Pilates world is getting wrong?

SPEAKER_00

What I think people are getting really right is they're having more fun with Pilates. I think that that's important. I think we're finding new ways to attract people of all shapes and sizes and desires and needs. I think that that's really cool. I think the fact that people in smaller, like tertiary towns know what Pilates is is great. The fact that my father is here overhearing people at his bars talk about Pilates and he knows how to talk about it. That's really great. I think we're really great there. What I think we're getting wrong, there's a couple things. One, I think teachers are too busy arguing about what Pilates is, and that is why what I'm going to say next is happening. There are way too many business owners who don't know what Pilates is, who own Pilates businesses. And that is what Pilates is getting wrong. Because I have to sit argue with them about yes, the business model you have is going to make money. I can see that. I love, by the way, I love Pilates businesses making money. I think it's great. However, the way you're setting yourself up, you're going to have a turn and burn of teachers because they're not going to be as into Pilates as they could be. And the people that are coming through are not going to get the actual benefits of what we say Pilates is. And so I do fear that there's just gonna, I think we're getting too many people into the industry that just see dollar signs and don't see the impact. And that's hard. That's hard for me. I'm wondering, I almost I love when a bubble is getting bigger, because that means people have access, but I'm also kind of wondering when will that pendulum swing just a little bit back so we can get more of Pilates into the Pilates business?

SPEAKER_01

And we've seen this bubble, haven't we, in other modalities and we've seen how it goes. Like this pattern has happened, and I try and say to people, but the really good quality teachers who are passionate about this, I mean, that will endure. It's been around for, you know, the last 30 years, it's been being taught extensively. What are the kind of conversations that you you were regularly hearing at these conferences? Is there common themes that are coming up for you?

SPEAKER_00

So, yeah. So some of the common themes, there's a couple of different camps. There's the people who've been teaching for decades who I think their fear is keeping them from seeing the excitement of younger teachers that they could be molding. So their fear of what I just said that the industry is, I think, getting wrong, is not seeing that those teachers are just part, they're they're they're getting caught up in it. They they're like, this is a job and I can do this thing that I love. And instead of actually being these magnets and like lighthouses of guidance, they're like, ugh, what they're teaching over there is wrong. But they don't know that. And it's not all wrong. Some of those moves are actually Pilates. So that camp of people, whether contemporary or classical, when you're looking down upon teachers and going, they don't, that's not it, you got to take a look at yourself in the mirror because we can't judge what brings people into Pilates, whether it's teaching or doing it. We have to meet people where they are. The other camp that I'm seeing a lot of these things is just an excitement and a yearning to learn. There are so many teachers who just want to learn. They just want to understand it. And because they're being taught so quickly, because people here, I get it. People need to make money yesterday. So they make the investment. They want to be able to teach as soon as possible. Studios need teachers two weeks ago because they oversold their memberships and they don't have the teachers for it. So there's this like this Venn diagram of people who just want to get started. But then they realize they don't know enough. I think there's too many gatekeepers that are they're not showing them, hey, here's where you can learn. And it's okay that it's okay that you're new. And it's okay to be a beginner teacher, and it's okay to be have been teaching for four years and realize I don't know why I teach that exercise that way. I don't know that. That's okay.

SPEAKER_01

I think one of the things that I see a lot is that a lot of these shorter teacher trainings aren't showcasing whatever you might think of a shorter teacher training. But they're not showcasing because even the longer teacher trainings, we all know you could do a two-year comprehensive course and you realize you're still a beginner teacher and that we've got to keep learning. And I think one of my frustrations is that sometimes these people haven't been empowered to realize it's okay and keep going. And this is it's like learning to drive, isn't it? The first time you get into your car, you're like, I've passed my test. What on earth do I do? And that's when the work starts, isn't it? When you're like in front of real people and you and it's lovely to see that they're learning. I I wonder if they're I sometimes see that maybe they're getting confused about what learning is. Like, is it just the sexy choreography uh as opposed to how to teach well and the meet the people that are in front of you?

SPEAKER_00

Nick, you're spot on. It's there, I mean, there's something that makes we can go with this, but like, you know, I have a mentorship program and I don't have rules about how many years you have to be teaching to be in it, because I think that that's just one more thing. If somebody's hungry enough that they want to invest right away, like let's do it. You know, it might be overwhelming for them, it might be different than if they'd been teaching for 20 years, but whenever someone's ready to go deeper, let's do it. What I find in those first few months is how few people can actually see what a body is doing, watching them say what the client is actually doing and say it like they're not doing it. And I'm like, do you see they're doing they're doing what you're saying? Do you like they're not you're saying this and they're not even changing? Like I feel like teachers aren't given permission to just watch bodies. And I think that might be maybe it's a vulnerability thing. I'm not sure. I'm not sure where the theory is, what's going on, but I agree they don't know what to learn. And I because a lot of training programs are this is a choreography. Here's how you do it, here's how you say, here, here's a great cue for that. And I am notorious for saying, like, everyone's like, what's a great cue for this? I'm like, I don't know. I can't, I haven't seen the client do it. How would I know what the cue is? Because setting up an exercise is not a cue, it's direction, you know, and knowing what a client, what a client needs to do more in that exercise requires me to see them.

SPEAKER_01

But the seeing takes time, doesn't it? But I see that lots of people aren't even being given initial guidance on how to do that. I remember vividly being on my training all those years ago and being like, how can you see that? And now when people say to me, How can you see that? I have this internal chuckle every time. I'm like, because I've just kept practicing and I go and learn from people. And you know, but it is a skill, isn't it? It's it's a it's a big skill and it takes a long time to really hone.

SPEAKER_00

So my teacher Jay Grimes said, like he first of all, he wouldn't even work with teachers who'd been teaching less than five years. He wouldn't even do it. And he said, You're not a teacher unless you've been teaching five years. I remember being like, what an arrogant jerk. But to be honest, it does take a while to watch a body. And even when I was training with him and I would see what people like, people are like seeing these things. I'm like, I don't see that. Like, I don't see it that way. I had to train myself, and this might be a neurodivergence thing, but I had to train myself to like like actually like look in the body and like look for the energy because they're seeing physical things that my brain wasn't connecting to. I also have a hypermobile body, so like I just don't feel the things the way they felt them. So I had to train myself on what I was seeing. And then the other thing that comes from that is I remember asking Jay, like, oh, why did you give them that exercise? He's like, Oh, my gut said they needed it. And I was like, We're just going off guts. That's what we're doing. That's the thing. And but it is the thing, right? And that that also takes time. Like intuition isn't something a five-year-old has. It's something it comes with experience that your subconscious can make connections to. And so I think one, if training programs could just tell people this is their first spot in your learning process, and what we're gonna get you to is teach people safely. That's what we're gonna get you to. And then from there, as you're teaching, you're gonna have interests and then you're gonna go back into a training program. And whatever that training program is, maybe it's a weekend, maybe it's a week, maybe it's another year, but you're gonna have interests and you're gonna go towards those and those interests. And I think that that is important in this industry. I think having people who are uh great at group classes and they can teach all types of uh average bodies of what they're doing. And then people who are specialists are that's so important, just like it is in any industry. But I do think giving teachers a permission that, like in the beginning, you don't know, and that's okay. And you don't know what you're seeing. So just keep watching.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. Leslie, I'd love to understand what's your story? When did Pilates first come into your life?

SPEAKER_00

I was just graduated from college. Um, it's an important part of the story. So I'm 22. I was living in the same town I went to college in, uh, which is in Southern California, and uh all of my friends had gotten married and moved away. I went to a private school, so they all got they all got married. School was way too expensive for me. I paid for it myself, and so I was not looking for a husband that was that expensive. So I graduated with a lot of student debt, but I had a great gig. I was working in retail, I was working in high end um accessory fashion. I loved it. I thought this was my career. You guys, I was definitely being groomed to run all of the stores for this company and be a buyer. Like I was in. And I thought I'd like set my sights, but I had no friends. And this girl who worked with me, she said, let's go to a Pilates class together. And I was like, oh, Pilates at some infomercial BS, it can't do anything. Because that's the only time I'd seen it. I'd only seen it on an infomercial, right? Selling a VHS or DVD or whatever. It's at the time. But there was like this part of my brain that's like, you need a friend, and someone just invited you to something that wasn't a bar. Maybe you should say yes. So I went with her. It actually happened to be at the BASI headquarters. So that's his hilarious, right? So I walk into this room. There is the weirdest machines I've ever seen in my entire life, and I did a mat class and it almost followed the original order, to be honest, but I didn't know what that was at the time. And I fell in love. I was like on a high. I left that class on a high, made three phone calls telling my father and two of my best friends, you have to do Pilates. Go, go Google a Pilates class to you. I was already like, uh, I was like already a promoter of Piles after one class. I went to the store, I changed the schedule so I could go to Pilai's every single day. Um, got a membership at a yoga studio that had five locations in the county I was in, and I could drive and there was Pilates class every single day. Lisa Hubbard was one of my first teachers. I would take her classes. Um, she was Lisa Clayton then, and I was so obsessed. And as I was in my like about 18 months into just all I did was mat five, six days a week. I remember my brain, I heard myself myself go, I don't like living here. Like I was just in a class going, I don't like living here. And it was so weird because like I could see the ocean, like I had friends at that point, like, and I was just like, I don't like living here. And I went to work that day. And this girl who had the same job as me in Santa Monica, so it's in LA County, she is like, Hey, Leslie, it's why you know I put my two week notice in. And I was like, Oh, I'm gonna put in for her gig. I'm gonna just transfer. I'm gonna have the same job. I'm gonna be at the beach, but I'm gonna be in LA. And I moved and I started doing Pilates in LA. And I was really struggling to find math classes there, to be honest. That was actually a little harder. And I mean, I think it's hilarious now because like people know how many famous instructors were in LA, but like this is like before people really bought had websites. I mean, when I started coaching people in Pali's business, they didn't have websites. I was one of the first teachers with a website. So we just couldn't Google Pilates. Like corporate companies were the ones that were coming up for Pilai's Mat classes. So I was scrambled my dollars together and found a girl who would do duets with me. And I was like barely affording these duets. And now I'm on equipment. And this teacher was like, You, you should teach this. And I was like, I can do that. I'm like $50,000 in student debt. I'm not even doing my career from my degree. Like I should take on, I should do more learning. But um I did. And I got so busy teaching Pilates on my days off and my time I wasn't working during the 2008 recession that I had to quit my real job, my salary job, and teach Pilates. And so that's how I, that's kind of how I got there. It took a couple of years to get into it, but I got into it at a time when people would probably think I was crazy to leave a salaried gig and I was making more money teaching Pilates than I was in that.

SPEAKER_01

So and when you think back to those first classes, like what was how did it make you feel that you thought I gotta do this six days a week?

SPEAKER_00

I don't think I could have articulated it then to myself. You know, I couldn't like translate what I was feeling. But what I was looking back, because I've looked back at that time many, many times, I felt what it was like to belong in my body. And as I look at my whole life, I just felt kind of like an outsider. I definitely had friends. So this is not like I was like, you know, I didn't have friends. Um, I always joke, like, if there's anyone from my past life who like like listens to me, like Leslie, I was your friend in high school. I had friends, but I always felt like at any point I would lose those friends. Like I didn't feel like I actually connected to people. And I really think that's because I just wasn't in my body. When people say standing around two feet, I remember going, Am I, do I even feel my feet on the ground? Like I just felt so awkward. I've been five nine since the sixth grade. Like I just felt really different and not like everybody else. And so I can say that Pelizal actually helped me feel like I was in my body. And I think what I the reason I kept wanting to go back is like a probably why people do drugs. Like, like, like there, I just was chasing that connection, that feeling that grounded, like a pause in my brain. Like my brain isn't going like this because I'm like actually in my body and that mind-body connection that we say Pilates gives. I really got it.

SPEAKER_01

And did the classical method come later, that training in classical work?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So um, I was doing mostly contemporary. I wouldn't have known what that was, by the way. I was just going to classes. When I got to LA, I happened to go to a contemporary studio, but there's a classical teacher. That's how I landed with. And when she said I should become a Pilates instructor, the only training in town that she referred me to was a classical training. I had no idea what I was getting into. But I will say, like, I don't really care what people teach. I care why they teach. Like, do you know why you teach? Do you know why you're picking the exercises you're picking? Like, if you do, then do whatever you want to do. I like a little bit of certainty in my life. So there's something about the order that just makes me feel in control. You know? And I also like to compare myself to myself because I spent so much of my life comparing myself to others. And no wonder I felt like an outsider. So for me, having my order for my body, my practice, and being able to go, oh, today, like I did, I did my reformer today, and today it felt so good. And my snake on my left side didn't feel great. And I could go, oh, what's going on there? And I could go, what happened yesterday? Like I could really compare myself. And I I wasn't comparing myself to other people's snakes. Go, we're gonna look different doing it. So that's kind of how I ended up in class. I kind of just fell into it. Just like I will be honest, I fell into training with the Taylor sisters and Boulder. And I lived a mile from Jay Grime Studios. So I kind of fell into that. Like there's just some things that like I didn't seek out. They just kept popping up for me.

SPEAKER_01

I think these days, as an in, you know, the word classical Pilates can often mean different things to different people, can't it? Well, I mean, when you talk about it, it sounds like you're talking about that true classical system order. Would I be right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, I know. Because now there's traditional Pilates, which we which also used to be classical, but now and now also classical.

SPEAKER_01

I hear a lot of studios in the UK say, you know, they might be more athletic and they will say, we're not classical, meaning method, you know, so more of that method. So now I hear a lot of people who I had considered contemporary because it was no longer that true classical. They used to 10 years ago talk about themselves being contemporary. Now they actually talk about themselves being classical, but they don't follow the order and they and they don't use that equipment. So I feel like it's a confusing piece for people now.

SPEAKER_00

Like if I were you, I'd want to I'd want to do that too. If you're listening, talk about how long you've been trained, talk about like using all the equipment, like do that. So, yes, I follow Joe's orders and his intentions. And my goal is for everyone of my clients to have autonomy in their practice to get to a place where I don't have to tell them how to set things up, that they are just going and I actually can watch their body and realize they're ready for more or realize they need to do some other things. I love that my clients range from being teachers to real humans and they treat Pilates like a gym. It's not their weight training, they still do that, but it's they're following that order and they have autonomy of their body because the reality is I'm not with them when they leave the house and they trip on the curb.

SPEAKER_01

I know. And I think it's such an important message, isn't it? That, you know, for those clients who are only doing reforma these days. I mean, not many of us have reformers at home. You know, they it's nice to know the system and have mat work, you know, especially in the UK, our houses are tiny compared to you in America. But, you know, it's like it's nice for them to be empowered to have a practice that they can bring anywhere with them.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and that's the thing. Like, I first of all, I find it interesting how few people really teach the mat. They think that people are paying for the equipment. That's a boundary that you're not setting. You're when they say, Oh, I I I thought I was paying for this reformer class, it's like, no, you're paying for my advice and education and my intuition to teach your body what you need. And I think this is where like educating people is important. Informing them of, yeah, people are marketing reform applies to you, but you're only getting one part of the system. And when you, when you do reform applies, yes, I love it too. Here's the deal: you're not actually seeing what your body is capable of without the support. And your whole life is lived without support, your entire life. And so I really need to see you move on your mat. I need to see you get on the other piece of equipment so I can see, oh, you know, how are you doing that? Like I make you pick up your own box and clean your own equipment because guess what? That's how you do things at home. And I can see, oh, you told me your back hurt after class, but I think it's because you actually went to Costco afterwards. And look at how you lift your box. That's how you lift your bags. Too many teachers are afraid to actually tell their clients what they're actually seeing in their bodies and where they are, they are the ones who are in control of how their body feels. And I really want my clients to take ownership of that. They love pollies, they'll go to pollies when when they're traveling because of that. And they they know the difference between someone who's giving them permission to be in their practice and when someone's trying to control that environment and they can make decisions of whether they like that or not or what they like about that. I do think that no matter what style of polties you want to teach, your clients can take ownership of how they move their bodies. And if you don't give them that, you're really entertaining them for an hour. And I know that that sounds harsh, but that's really what's happening because I um I tell this story a lot. So there's an exercise where it's like a single straight leg stretch standing, right? Like you're just standing there and you're marching, right? And you're lifting your knee as high as you can without slouching and you're trying to lift your legs super fast. And I made this 80-year-old client do it. She came twice a week and she's doing it at the end of every session. And she's like, Why do you make me do this? And I said, Because a fall is a death sentence for you. You might not die on the fall, but within two years, that's what the stats say. So I'm here to teach you how to pick up your own two feet. So she rolls her eyes at me. And later that day, she's going to Silomerdeo Drive. She's going down these steps. There are those like rounded seats, like not marble, but like like soft steps, right? She's going down them. She has her phone in one hand, she has her purse in the other. She's not using the railing. She's going down the steps and she misses a step. And she marches her legs up, up, up, up, up, all the way down the steps. She did not fall. She comes back and she tells me, she's like, this is what just happened. She's like, I'm doing it every day at home now. Great. Perfect. Can't hurt yourself. Like, we, I think it's important that we, as teachers, educate people. Why are these exercises more than just a workout? This is actually your functional movement so that you can do all the things you love in life.

SPEAKER_01

But I think, you know, the way that you reflected on how Pilates made you feel, I hear this a lot. Like we get in touch with who we are. Like, I don't like living here, I don't like this. Or we, you know, we don't really do Pilates to be good at Pilates, we do it to be good at life. And it's so interesting, you know, for me, that's such a powerful message is to help people learn who they are and empower them to kind of live their lives. Yeah, the strength and toning bit. It's a given, like it does that, but it's so much deeper than that. I know that on your podcast, Leslie, you know, you talk a lot about mindset, belief systems, self-doubt. Do you see that come up? Is that why you kind of created that? Do you see that come up with teachers? And maybe that's what's getting in their way of transcending just teaching repertoire.

SPEAKER_00

Oh gosh, that could be one of the things I'm sure. There's this interesting thing about, I think it's all industries, but I'm just in this one. So I'll say in ours, the imposter syndrome and this need to figure out who I am in this space and to have a name, coaching so many businesses around the world. I multiple times I hear like, I need to figure out my my space in this industry, is my position in this industry. And I'm like, what are you talking about? What does that even mean? I have to ask, I'm like, what do you mean by that? Like, what are you talking about? Like, well, look at you. You have a space. And I'm like, so I carved it out just by being myself. You know, like just by creating something that I saw need for. I'm not a dancer, right? Like, I remember feeling such imposter syndrome when I was a teacher. I would never have told anyone the story I told you guys today about how I thought Pilates was an infilmercial workout. I would never took me years to be like, oh my God, people won't kick me out. I'm too known now. They'll they'll have to keep me. But like I was so embarrassed that I was like so ignorant to what Pilates was, but I wasn't a dancer. So I, and back when I became a teacher in 2008, that was so odd to not be a dancer and be a Pilates. So I felt like such the odd person out. And I didn't move like the other girls and guys in the classes because I don't have a grandron decham. I'm a runner. But what happened is I started attracting people who were like me and not just clients, but teachers and being able to be a bridge from like what the trainers that I study from were trying to get to me to other people. So I would just say like, I think this imposter thing that people have is that they're looking at people who've made it and doing a comparison. I think if you can, you should look at other people and be inspired. If you find yourself envious or jealous, it's a highlight, it's a flashlight on like, oh, there's something about that that I want, or there's something about that that intrigues me. But to put yourself in like a lineup, like, okay, I've got to do these things because they did those things, that's going to, you're going on someone else's journey. You got to go on your own. And I really do believe that the more people own how they interpret this method and they stay curious and they help the people that they are the only people on this earth that could help, you will find your position, your place just because you built it, not because, like, you know, someone gave you a map to it or like, hey, there's a sign. This is for you, Nick. This is your position. Like, you didn't do that. That's not how this podcast came to be, right? Like, and I really find that there's so many people who are like, I've got to figure out my position is. I've got, and they're what they're doing is they're making themselves be in this like lineup of a ladder, and that's not what's out there. That's not what this, I don't think that's what's happening. Um, and I just hope that I inspire people to just stay curious about what interests you in this industry and you will become known for that. And whether that's known in your neighborhood or in the world, like, trust me, I'm amazed every single day that there are people who know I am in this world. I love that and I don't take it lightly. I feel very honored. But I hope that this conversation might inspire them that like they don't have to seek that out to get there. They could be themselves and get there as well.

SPEAKER_01

It's hard to be yourself, though, isn't it? Sometimes when I met you now, I don't know if you were always like, it feels like you were unashamedly yourself and your personality comes across. Have you always like, how did you feel like you could do that? And how did you go from doing those sessions in LA to being where you are now? Like, how does that come about?

SPEAKER_00

Time and age, my goodness. I don't think I definitely can tell you in my 20s, I was trying to be whatever who would look beautiful and popular in the area were doing. I was like, okay, that's what they do, that's what I gotta do. I also feel like in my 30s in this industry, like I happened to be a leaner body. Look, I'm what people would call a thin body, but like I was what people thought was a Pilates body, if we put it in the air quotes back then. I did a lot to try to stay in that group of people because I felt like that that was like the right thing. So I did a lot by trying to imitate and what that led to burnout, you know, that led to clients I didn't like teaching and places I didn't like working and feeling like at some day they're all gonna find out. So I will say that going out on my own really helped me because I I just had me. So I just had to be me, you know. And so I really think that was helpful. I think the other thing that really helped me along my journey, I remember hearing Brene Brown say, make sure you know who the five people whose opinions of you matter. And I realized that, and this, you guys, I did this in LA. So if you can figure this out, if I can find it in LA, you can find it anywhere. But like I remember thinking, like, oh, I'm really letting people who might even know who I am's opinions of me matter. Like, that's that's like whose actual opinions of me matter, like and in my life, in this career, and do they know that? Do they even know that they that the words they have have weight? And so I really did some digging on that. And I will say, like, going out on my own and having to really rely on myself and trust myself and learn, you you want to learn about yourself, go be an entrepreneur. You'll learn real quick. But like I I really learned a lot about myself and I learned what I needed. And I, and the more I showed up as me, and the more I was accepted by people I liked, you know, um, that made it easier. I will say it's so hard and it's an evolution. You're like an onion. You're even though it's you, you still have to get to know yourself and your likes. And and so my 30s were definitely that journey. The husband I'm with today, I would never have dated had I not gone in that journey. He was a musician. Are you kidding? That's unreliable. I would do some reflection about the people that you're around. Do they let you be you? Or do they are you working at a place that wants you to be something that you're not? The thing is, I'll tell you a story. So there was a time in LA that I had a modeling agent and a commercial agent. And something that people might not know is that commercial work is very different than modeling work. So, commercial work, they actually want you to look like a regular person and modeling work, a size two is is heavy, right? So, like here I was a two-four, right in the US sizes, too small for my five nine frame. I wasn't thin enough for my modeling agent, and I was too skinny for my commercial agent. And I was just sitting outside of having these back-to-back meetings and just going, so I'm not good enough for anybody. And I also don't like how I feel. And so I fired everybody and I quit it all. And I just was like, I gotta go make me happy. So I think like that took time. And that was probably around I've been teaching for five, six, seven years at that time. So just the longer I did that. And I will say, Jay Grimes and and the teachers that surrounded him also helped me on that journey because in doing classical work, the first teacher that I had, and some of the teachers, trainers that I had in the beginning, not the Taylor sisters for sure, but like people before them, it was very much about like do it like this, because this is the way it's done. And it looks like this. And I was just trying to perform. And Jay was like, I don't want you to perform. I don't, I want you just to do it the way you do it. And that that invitation to be like, what? But I don't, but my snake isn't beautiful. And and Jay was like, most Pilates isn't pretty, you know. Like most Pilates doesn't look good in a photo. And just so I think like my own Pilates practice really helped me get to know myself as well and unraveling that performance aspect that can be part of it.

SPEAKER_01

I think for me it was similar, I mean different, clearly didn't have a model agent, but the Pilates got me to realize who I was, and it's such a simple thing to say, but knowing who you are and being yourself, I mean, it it takes time, doesn't it, to kind of unravel that. And I hear that a lot about Pilates. You know, that's what I always think is amazing. What other modality do people talk about? You know, made me realize I wasn't happy with where I was living or I wasn't happy with my job, or it made me learn about efficiency. It made me learn about how in my life I was burning out because why did harder always have to be better? What if I could make the harder stuff feel easier? Like, does that make it easier? Oh, no, it doesn't. It makes me enable, it allows me to do the advanced work. What if I did that in life? I mean, I always think like Pilates taught me so much about my life, but also about who I am. And, you know, made me realize I didn't want these other people around me, similar to you, going like trying to take you down with because you're not, you don't fit into this box.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Oh, Nick, I I couldn't agree more. Like I tell people, you know, I do a lot of online teaching, and I'm like, if you can't do this exercise, what can you do? By the way, the more you practice, like, oh, I can't do that, but I could do this, I can't do that, I could do this. You're doing that here on your mat. Guess what's gonna happen when you're in life and you're like, I can't do that. Oh, but I could do this. Like you're just training your brain to do that. I think as human beings, we have to start listening for the voices of people who like us showing up as ourselves. I remember when my husband put made me put YouTube videos at us so freaking scared. I was so nervous. I was like, oh my God, the Palais police are gonna come after me. They're gonna be like, who do you think you are? Da-da-da-da-da. You know, and he said, I don't care. No one's doing it, you have to do it. So I did it. And you know what, Nick? The comments were not jerks. Most people were like, oh, thanks for making it so easy to understand. Oh, thanks for doing this. And when you start to look for the evidence of people who are who like who you are and like how you're showing up, then the people who say the comments that are weird, they sound crazy. They sound weird. So I would, I think a lot of us just need to tune our dial, like a radio station, to not to the point that you like your head gets big and you don't, you're not in reality, but like just too often we are pitting things, everyone's dial to switch to the people who just tear them down all the time. And that's, you know, I think there's a happy medium in there. And there's constructive criticism. People say I talk too fast. I do. I don't know how to slow down.

SPEAKER_01

But you fit a lot in in the time, so that's all good. I'd love to talk about profitable Pilates. And we talked a little bit already about the business owners out there who were maybe running Pilates studios. But where did this come about? Because I definitely remember there was a time where before this big boom, there were teachers out there who loved their craft, who then decided to open studios and didn't realize that the business of Pilates is a whole other learning curve. Is that really what kind of drove you to look at this? And I mean, you're still coaching business-wise. And what are you seeing out there, Leslie?

SPEAKER_00

So Profit Applies came about at this kind of at the same time I started teaching. So, you know, I was a manager in retail. When I left that, the fitness company I worked for knew that I had a management experience and they had a studio manager job opening up. So here I was six months into comprehensively teaching, and they're like, Do you want to run the studio? And I was like, Yeah, I'll take a salary and health insurance. That's great. Thanks so much. Um, and I'm really good at that. Before that, they had noticed that I, every time they gave me a first-time client, that client would buy a package. So most people had a 30% conversion or less, and I had a hundred percent conversion. And so they're like, What are you doing? And that forced me to like observe what teachers were doing with first-time clients. And I realized the difference is and I made a workshop. And I taught that workshop for that company, taught it for several locations, then studios started hiring me outside of that company to go teach it. So Prof Apply started at the same time I started teaching. And it came from, I remember when I first started teaching, someone said, Oh, you should charge this price for privates because it's less than her. And she was trained a year before you, and she's charging less than her because that person trained two years. And so it was just like this everyone was charging less than someone who'd been teaching longer than them. So I just went to the person that they were all basing their rates off and I asked, When was the last time you raised your rates? And she said she actually just lowered them because of the recession. And I said, Oh, okay. And before that, when was it? She's like, I don't remember. Okay, well, guess what? No one is leaving room for anyone to make a living if this is how we're doing rates. This is not how business works because remember, my retail experience, I know how margins work, I know things work. So I went in and I was like, I can't live off of this, so I'm gonna charge this because that's what I need to live off of. You know, that meant people didn't like me or people did not didn't like me, but said no to me. Someone else is cheaper. Okay, go there. That's great, go do that. So that's how that kind of came. And what I will say is I have found that too many people start, they happen upon a studio. They're they get trained, there's not a studio near them, or they get really busy. And so they just become bus like happen stance business owners. And what happens is most of them don't know how much money they make. They can't take time off for weddings, uh, education, things like that. One of my girlfriends took maternity leave and she just made no money for three months. And I was like, I do not understand that. I come from a Job where, like, they're like, This is how much you'll get paid for the year, this is how many sick days you get, this is how much vacation time you get. This is like, you would never take a job where someone's like, Oh, we'll see how much you make at the end of the year. You just never would do that. So I was like, How do I help teachers and studio owners have some sort of formula so that they can actually build in profit margins and vacation time and sick days into all the sessions that they teach? And is that a perfect salary? No, but it's you have more control over it than you think. And what I'm seeing a problem is is that too many people don't put a profit margin in. Too many people don't think they're worthy enough to make what they want to make. And then really what's happening is people aren't charging enough to pay teachers well, or they overpay the teachers based on how much they're charging. So then the profit margins aren't there. And we saw this during the pandemic, and people were like, oh my God, it's so sad all these studies are closing. I'm like, if they, if a studio that was closed for six weeks couldn't survive, they were not surviving. I'm gonna tell you right now, that was not a survivable studio because there are students in California that were shut down for almost two years and they're still there. So, like, you not that they had the profit margins to stay open for two years, but they made it work. They had longevity, they had consistency. And I think where a lot of people aren't understanding is that there is a simple model. And when you work for a studio, if you truly work for them correctly and you're employed correctly, um, because this industry also likes to misclassify people all the time, you're not gonna make a ton of money based on that service price because they they have way more bills than you could ever imagine. Um, we are pricing out and doing a business plan right now, and you are it's shocking how much things can cost. Now, you are amazing, you deserve to get paid well, but they have to charge a certain amount, you know, to get there. And then hopefully your job is to show up, be amazing, and go. That hopefully is a job. Now, if they're asking you to do other things, it's a different story. They should pay you for that. But if you work for yourself, it's easy to go, oh, but I'll make this much if I work for myself. Yes. And then you also have all the insurance, liability, marketing, website, all the other things you have to go into it. So it ends up when I worked for a high-end fitness company, you can do the math and it ends up being kind of a little bit more in one way or the other. So it depends on what you want. Do you want to have freedom? Go be an employee at a great place. It's one well run. You can have a ton of freedom if you have boundaries, but you give a ton of freedom. If you think freedom is making your own schedule and having your own business, great. It also comes with owning the business. But I do think that there's this, I believe that Police can be accessible, but I think it has to be built in. I think too many people think if I lower my prices, that's what makes me accessible, but that's not what makes you accessible. Accessibility can be parking, accessibility can be your location, accessibility can be uh just so many things. And so what I would rather studios do is actually charge prices that will actually help them pay the team that they have in a way that makes that team stay there for a long time. And then go pay those teachers to go work and teach classes at a community center that is accessible to people who need it. Charge a certain amount that you could actually like have uh sponsored students who get private sessions. You know, there's ways to build those things into our margins instead of just going, I'm just gonna charge a little bit less for everything. But that doesn't mean it's accessible to the person who can't afford it at all or has other things. So I just think that we as an industry could do a lot better there thinking about it. There's too many people who don't think that they're worthy of charging actual money for the services that they're providing.

SPEAKER_01

And I think when you I so I remember pre-COVID, I had one small equipment studio. I opened it, it was my way of leaving my corporate life. And it the model was fine when it was me there. And then I sort of naively thought, well, I'll just have some other people come in and teach the hours I'm not there. And then it was when I I was similar to the one you talked about. I was when I had my daughter and I was off. I very quickly realized the model did not work for other people to teach in it, it didn't have enough margin. And yet, whilst the studio was full, it had this feeling like I was frustrated because we were making no money. The teachers were frustrated because they didn't feel like they were being paid enough. And the whole thing just didn't work. And I remember we were closed in the UK for a long time for COVID. And when I reopened, I'd actually just opened a reformer studio two days before COVID. And then when we reopened, I kind of got to do it all again. I had done a lot of work on business at this point and realized we had to do it differently. And to your point, and I think it's a really important point to get if you can get the model right, you can do all those things. What other job do you not get a pay rise for five years? That might be you as a studio owner, but it's definitely the teachers. There's lots of teachers being paid what were people being paid 10 years ago when I started. We need to be paying our teachers better. We need to have profit margins. We go into schools now, we're just going into a deaf school. They I said, we you don't need to charge, we don't want to be paid. We're gonna come in and do this. We scholarship memberships to people who maybe are in financial hardship. Like there's ways to do it, as you said, but you can only do that if you have profit.

SPEAKER_00

And I think this is like here's the thing, you can do it so many different ways. If you're a solo person, you can say, hey, $5 of every single session goes towards this community center class that you then take that money and pay yourself to go teach. Or maybe you donate it to that community center so they can pay a local teacher in that area to go teach it. Like it doesn't have to always be you, you know. Like I think people want to be part of something, you know. In our businesses that we have today, we've built in actually giving money to charities. Like we pick a charity and we have it's part of the profit margins, it's going to that charity. We don't even think about it. We don't go, how much are we gonna give this quarter? Nope, it's a it's an actual formula. It just goes there, it happens. They can they can count on it, they know it's gonna come every quarter. Too often people are pricing their services based on what everyone else is doing and then going from there. You have to start with the profitability in mind. And I will also say to the studio owners, your salary should be part of your income gross goal because every service should be paying you because too many studio owners are busy in their teaching all the time. And look, if you want to teach, it's great. Now you have to hire a studio manager to do the things that the studio owner is going to do. If you only get paid when you're teaching, then you become competition for your teachers. Because when you need money, who are you gonna give that client to? Who's that new class gonna go to? So I really do think that studio owners just don't understand that like your salary is in there for every single service. And that uh means how many weeks does do need to be opened? Maybe the studio has to be closed four weeks a year, like literally closed, because you just want to be like everyone should take this week off. All the teachers should have this week off. Everyone should like there's ways to put it in there. And yes, it might mean that uh you're a little more expensive than every studio in town, but why does that make you different? Don't be afraid. If people are price shopping for Pilates, they're all that's who they are. They're just they're price shopping for how they buy their coffee, they're price shopping for their groceries. If people are shopping for the impact that you're going to have, then the investment that they have to make is X to work with you. But I do think so many people are like, oh, is it okay if I charge as much? Like, no, if you want, you said you want X goals to happen in your life. For me to offer that in this space, you have to come this many times a week. And yes, it is a time and cost investment, but then you well feel like this. If you only come this much or you're just here off whenever you want, you're actually gonna feel great when you leave, but you're not gonna have the impact you want to have. That's up to you. But to work with me, for me to give you those benefits, for anyone to give those benefits, you have to do it like this. I think having a confidence and a belief in yourself and what you're doing and what your studio can do matters. And I do often feel like people are like, oh, is it okay? Do you want to pay this much? Is that okay if we have classes? No, this is when we all win, this is when we operate, this is what our policies are. And that those boundaries, going back to the start of our conversation, allow you to have a thriving business that pays your teachers. That means that your teachers want to stay and they're in a great business. It means that you aren't so stressed out that you're not meeting with your teachers. I think the other thing that business owners are not doing is they're not meeting with their staff in a way that cultivates them. Telling your staff what their percentage of, you know, beds filled is not growing them. Helping them grow as a teacher is why they stay. You know, when when I hear that KPIs are all about how many people are in a class, you're not going to attract a team, you're not going to keep teachers who want to grow because they're going to be like, I'm going to go over here where this person's going to help me learn. I want to be mentored. Like giving people that mentorship quality is going to keep your staff there, but it requires thinking about that from the jump. And too many people are trying to build the plane as it's flying. And then they do, they make decisions out of fear.

SPEAKER_01

It's such a shame that more studios aren't doing that mentorship. You know, we we spend a lot of money on our lead instructors supporting it's, you know, teachers are our product. You've they've got to be brilliant. And it goes back to what we said earlier, whereas lots of teachers are realizing they've got more to learn. And I think they can feel very alone and very lost. And it's a shame actually, more studios aren't passionate about putting on training courses and inviting, you know, people like yourself. And there's lots of great people out there who come and do this for studios, um, you know, to bigger and smaller extents. But it's a shame that that's not happening because that would kind of help some of the, and you know, go back to what we said at the beginning about people being like, this isn't Pilates and this isn't good enough. That's kind of how you shift it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

You know, look, I I have been a busy studio manager and a busy studio owner before. It's easy to get overwhelmed, and then, you know, the you look at the bills and you're like, I gotta go towards this. You really have to build into your schedule and your time, time to like look at the teachers you have and see where they can be cultivated. And you have to have a relationship with them. This might shock people, but I really do coach studio owners to meet with their staff individually every month. Takes 10 minutes. Hey, what do you think you're doing well? Hey, here's what I see you're doing well. What do you think? Where can I support you? Where do you think that you need some uh room to improve? Here's where I could see that. Hey, next quarter I'm bringing in this teacher. You know, everyone thinks that teachers stay at places for monetary reasons. And yes, we all have bills to pay. But I took a job at a high-end fitness company knowing I'd make less when I worked there than if I taught for myself, but knowing I would learn a lot. And the studio manager at the time was someone I wanted to learn from. And I was like, when is your schedule? I want to learn from you. Because that I made less working there, but I stayed for a long time. I had friends who stayed there for 10 years because of the health insurance, 401k, and daycare. So there are so many different things. It's not just always about money. If you can actually tell people, here's here's what we can't do, and here's why. You know, I don't mind telling people behind the scenes information. Here's what I can do, and here's what we're gonna do. You'd be surprised what people want when it comes to their careers and their lives and the impact that they want to make. Because if they're happier, they often don't need to make, you know, 80% of what you're charging because they're they're actually feeling like they're making part of something. But I do think it comes, people have to take a step back, get to know what their goals are and also what their value system is. Like, what's my value is of this business? And who am I hiring teachers online with those values? Or am I hiring people because the resume is here? If you're hiring people because the resume is there, you're gonna have a revolving door. You just will.

SPEAKER_01

Leslie, when I sat down to plan our interview today, there were so many areas I could cover because you are a busy woman. You, you know, you have your coaching programs, your online classes, workshops, you're running retreats, you do speaking gigs. Like, how do you structure all of that work? How do you? I mean, you talked a little bit about your daily structure, but how do you, you know, was it intentional to build all those different revenue streams?

SPEAKER_00

I I didn't know everything that I was building when I was building it. One thing I will say, and I and I'm pretty open about this in 2017, I built two things at the same time. So OPC and Profit Applies Agency. So those are two membership things. I felt I needed to do both of them, and I started them at the same time. And you only have so much time. So I actually had to put a pause on the OPC and focus on agency, the coaching membership I was doing, get that going. And then in 2020, I could really put my focus back on OPC. So there was a mistake there where I tried to do two things at once. But before that, everything I did was a bit out of curiosity for me and also based on the questions I was being asked. This is where you have to be present. What are people asking you for? What do they think that you're an expert on? I started with retreats before I had any memberships because I had clients who wanted to go and you learn how to do that and you do that well. And then I did the online thing because to be honest, I had someone who knew how to do online technology and I had done commercial training and so I had some camera experience. And so then I started with that, the business coaching I've been doing for a while. So I don't think that everyone needs to have such diversified services because that can make you crazy if you don't have a team. I don't think what people realize is there are 25 people on my payroll. For me to be here right now with you, there are people all around the world who are working on things, making sure that our customers are being serviced and, you know, things are being taken care of. I have an amazing assistant who literally likes books meals for places and does a lot of different things. She likes books my doctor's appointments, you know. So I will say that you, I believe anyone can do the things that I'm doing, but you have to be a good delegator. And you have to also understand when you're doing something because it's something you want to do or because you think you're supposed to be doing it. So I don't think everyone needs to be on YouTube. I do not think everybody needs to have memberships. I don't think every studio needs memberships. If you think, oh, the only way to make money is to have memberships, you are wrong. I made over six figures in a tiny studio above a bakery and I only worked 40 weeks a year. You I can help make you money doing anything. You just have to know what you want. But I do think people don't realize how hungry babies are when a podcast, a membership of any kind, like they constantly have to be serviced. And so what I would just say is like really follow what people are asking and your curiosity. There's a Venn diagram, and then you'll want to do those things.

SPEAKER_01

We can all, you know, I mean, you started at the beginning of our conversation talking about this. We can all be caught up in I should be doing that, that person's doing that, I should show up online, I should be teaching that. Like, and you're absolutely right. I had this moment recently where I was being asked to do something, and I was like, well, yeah, I mean, I could, and I think I do all right. And I just I remember I woke randomly, it happened the moment I woke up. I had this thought. I was like, I don't enjoy that. I won't enjoy it, and I'm not gonna do it if I don't enjoy it. So it's really interesting to share that and also to share the support system that needs to happen. Because I think we can be a little guilty in this world of thinking it's all on us, and well, it's sure fire way to burn out. Leslie, I could literally talk to you all day. Can I end our conversation with some quickish fire questions? Your favorite classical Pilates exercise?

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god, my favorite. Oh my god. I'm gonna give you two. The arm series on the spine corrector must be done, but spine twist on the mat, so good. I love a bit of rotation.

SPEAKER_01

What's the most misunderstood Pilates exercise, do you think?

SPEAKER_00

The most misunderstood Pilates exercise? Rolling like a ball. Why do you think it's misunderstood? I don't think people realize how much work is involved. The rolling like a ball is your gateway exercise to jackknife, to teaser, to control balance, to short spine, to any of the overhead exercises. And most people just think it's a nice massage on their back.

SPEAKER_01

I loved the way when I went to your class in LA, I love the way you sequenced it into teaser and it actually made the teaser feel so easy. Actually, it was a really lovely way to do it. You've talked a bit about cueing and you know changing depending on who's the person in front of you. But do you find there's a cue that you hear yourself saying a lot? Yeah. I tell everyone to work with zest. I love that. And what do you think makes a truly great Pilates teacher? Curiosity. 100%. Be curious. Yeah. What do you think? If Joseph Pilates walked into a studio today, what do you think would surprise him the most?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, whose studio? Well, that's the question, isn't it? I'm gonna say my. If he walked into my studio, I don't think it would surprise him that my it's in my house and there's a bed, you know, in the other room. I think the colors of the equipment might shock him.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, of course. All the colours now, yeah. Leslie, it's been such a joy to have this conversation. I appreciate you so much for getting up early. If people want to work with you, I mean, they can work with you in so many ways, can't they? I mean, that's the thing. We'll put some links on the show notes, but how can they find out more about you? Is it all on your website? I know you're all over social media. We have so many ways that you can connect with us.

SPEAKER_00

You want free YouTube. Online Plias Classes is my YouTube channel. I'm live every Sunday at 9 a.m. answering your questions. So there is ways to get me for free. If you want feedback on your forum, you want a little more connection with me, OPC's membership is where you want to go. If you want me to teach you as a teacher, then that's my mentorship. So everything is like there's ways to get even closer to me, depending on what you want to do. And if you want in coaching with Profit Plodies, that's where you're gonna go. And you'll find you have a lot of act, a lot of access between free information and then our membership that supports you. But our our goal here is more bodies doing Pilates. So I can't teach everyone, not everyone's going to like me. It's why there's so many different people out there and they need you, and you are the only person who can do what you do the way that you do it. So hopefully my content can help you in some capacity on the journey you want to go on.

SPEAKER_01

Well, thank you so much for your time today, Leslie. I so appreciate it. It's been great to chat to you finally.

SPEAKER_00

It's so fun. We must do it again. I hope, I hope people like want to hear us do another conversation about something else.

SPEAKER_01

But I could have I could have talked for another hour. So please, let's put it in the diary and we'll find out another slot that works. Thank you so much, my love. Thank you. A huge thank you to Leslie for making the time to have this conversation with me. It was very early in the morning in Las Vegas, where she is, when we recorded this. So I'm really grateful that she showed up with such openness and honesty, as she always does. She was like that when I met her in LA as well. What I really appreciated about this conversation is how refreshingly honest Leslie is about the realities of working in Pilates. From everything, really, from the classical method to teaching standards to business to building a career, like it isn't always pretty, but she so beautifully was able to talk about that. And honestly, I think that's a big part of why this podcast has resonated with so many of you. These conversations aren't just about pretending that everything is perfect, they're exploring the real experiences, ideas, and the challenges that shape our work as teachers and as studio owners. So I hope that you enjoyed today's one. If you did enjoy it, it would do me a huge favor if you could like, subscribe, follow us, do all the things. And if you haven't already, please do share this with any teachers, students, clients that you think this would resonate with. I am loving building this community alongside you. We're in 101 countries now, which is just insane. So stay curious, stay grounded, and I'll see you for our next episode of Beyond the Reformer. Thank you so much for being here.