Beyond the Reformer

Rael Isacowitz: Teaching With Purpose, Precision And Flow At Basi Pilates (PART 1)

• Nic Lenny • Season 4 • Episode 49

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0:00 | 49:22

There are very few people in the Pilates world who have shaped the industry in the way Rael Isacowitz has.


In part 1 of this conversation, Nic sits down with the founder of Basi Pilates to explore the real foundations of the method, what it means to teach with purpose, and why the future of Pilates depends on more than just choreography.


From building one of the first curriculum-based teacher training programmes in the late 80s to creating a global community of educators, Rael shares the story behind Basi and the approach that continues to guide it today.


This episode goes deep into the art and science of movement, the importance of flow, and how great teaching can create real change in people’s lives.


Rael also shares his perspective on cueing, precision, and what separates a good instructor from a truly impactful teacher.


Timestamps

00:00 Introduction to Rael Isacowitz

01:57 The early vision behind creating a structured Pilates curriculum

04:17 What Pilates looked like in the late 80s

05:05 The very first Basi teacher training group

08:16 How Rael first discovered Pilates and his movement background

14:08 Opening one of the first Pilates studios in California

18:55 The story behind the name Basi Pilates

21:26 How the Basi platform and education evolved over time

25:05 The influence of yoga, dance, and giving credit in the industry

30:07 Creating joyful, athletic Pilates experiences

34:53 Pilates as a tool for positive change in the world

39:02 What the mind body connection really means in practice

42:51 Why cueing is one of the most important teaching skills


If you loved this episode, make sure you’re subscribed so you don’t miss part two coming later this week.


Connect with Nic:


Connect with Rael:


Get 5% off Balanced Body Pilates equipment with the code SOUL PILATES 

SPEAKER_00

Coming up on today's episode of Beyond the Reformer. When you started Bassi, was there a problem you were trying to solve or a passion you were trying to ignite in people?

SPEAKER_01

I wouldn't say there was a problem yet, but I could foresee a problem.

SPEAKER_00

Today on Beyond the Reformer, I'm joined by Rael Azakovich, the founder of Basi Pilates.

SPEAKER_01

To think that I opened the first studio in this entire region seems inconceivable to people. When I say it to people, they think it's like I opened the first Starbucks. Teaching comes down to cueing. And cueing is communication. It's one thing talking your talk, but you walk that talk. I feel so strongly about crediting people or systems when we are inspired by something. There was this very moving moment that still I get chills when I think of it.

SPEAKER_00

I'm Nick Lenny. I'm a Pilates teacher, a studio owner, and your host for these conversations all about Pilates and the world of Pilates. In January, I went on a bit of a road trip to Los Angeles. I was going to the Pilates Journals Expo there. Great show. Loved it. And I thought, while I'm here in this part of the world, why don't I interview some people who live around here? I kind of last minute got the opportunity to meet Raya from Basi Pilates. I had Sam Wood on the podcast, who is a friend of his. Great episode, already one of our most listened to all-around physiotherapy and Pilates. So do listen to it. And she is a good friend, and she said you should interview Ryel. And he's down the road, he's in Newport Beach. So continue my road trip. We went there, and this was another conversation that you know. I have an assistant with me, and she normally gives me a wave at the 50 minutes that we can try and keep it to about an hour. And she just said, Nick, I refuse to wave. It was too good a conversation. So we split this into two parts. I don't think I've ever heard Rayal talk so much about his life, his thoughts, the future. It was just inspirational. I have honestly thought about so much of what he said many times over. So today you have part one, and later in this week, we will be releasing part two. Before we begin, I know I sound like a broken record, but could you please like, subscribe, follow wherever you are watching or listening to this? We are over on YouTube. We actually spoke to Riel in Basi HQ, so it's a great opportunity. If you want to see what his office looks like, you can come and watch us on YouTube. And I can't wait to share this conversation with you. So let's get started. Raya, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. We are here at your studios in Newport Beach, California. What an honor to be here.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to welcome you.

SPEAKER_00

I so appreciate it. We were here for an event, and we, you sort of forget how many amazing Pilates people are actually in this part of the world, and we'll definitely talk about how you got here. I'd love to know, you know, you are the founder of Bassi Pilates, a global institution. You are genuinely almost mentioned in every interview that I do on this podcast. You've been such an inspiration. When you started Bassi, was there a problem you were trying to solve or a passion you were trying to ignite in people?

SPEAKER_01

I wouldn't say there was a problem yet, but I could foresee a problem. There weren't any curriculum-based teacher training programs at the time. Now there were people were teaching Pilates, don't get me wrong, but I had already taught in a college environment for several years. I needed to come up with curricula and syllabus and have a very structured format for teaching my students. So I realized that the need for Pilates teachers was growing and growing and growing. And it was almost in my DNA to want to offer a teacher training program that was curriculum-based, that had a format, a structure, that had modules of study, that had homework assignments, that had objectives, goals. That's not the way I had studied. And it's not to say that being an apprentice in a studio and working under someone was a bad system. I think it's a very good system. But it's limited in how many people you can qualify. So I recognized that there would be in the future a need for a curriculum to train Pilates teachers of a high standard.

SPEAKER_00

When was this? Because you were doing, you know, you came up with this idea quite early on. When we think of Pilates, it feels like only anyone who did Pilates 20 years ago was a dancer. When was this? Because it was quite early on, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was in the uh late 80s. Yeah. It was in the late 80s. I had uh taught at the Wingate Institute of Physical Education in Israel, and that's the um elite and premier college for teachers of physical education. I was a graduate and then was invited back several years later to teach there and be a lecturer there. And that's where I really credit Wingate for giving me those skills to come up with a curriculum. After that, I went to the UK to do my graduate studies. I did my master's degree at the University of Surrey. I was already formulating a plan. But in 1989, I was the director of the dance department at the MacDonald College of Performing Arts in Sydney, Australia. And I had a little studio at the college. It was one of my requests that if I took the position, I wanted all the students to do Pilates mat work. All the dance students, whether they were classical or contemporary, modern musical theater, I wanted everyone to do Pilates matte work as part of their technique and their daily activities. But I also wanted a little studio where I could teach people either in a private or semi-private environment. And I had three students, clients that requested that I teach them to be teachers. And that was the first group of Bassi in 1989. And there were three students. One, an actress, very well known in Australia, Megan Williams, absolutely wonderful person, became a dear friend and tragically died later of breast cancer. She did so much for me personally, for Bassi and for Pilates in Australia. There was a physiotherapist from the United States who was living in Australia, and a dancer from the United States who was living in Australia. And that was the first group of Bassi. And I think it exemplifies the diversity that has always represented Bassi. Not only dancers, not only physiotherapists, not only actors, such a diversity. But it was also at that little studio where I started. I trained a lot of dancers, both professional and students, dancers from Sydney Dance Company, Australian Ballet. But I also started working with a lot of athletes and making inroads into the professional athlete arena. And it was such an amazing little meeting ground of people from all different backgrounds. And that's where I developed this multidisciplinary mindset that Pilates itself may not be the answer for everything, but it's a wonderful meeting ground. Physios need a good exercise program for their patients. Orthopedic surgeons need a good exercise program. Osteopaths, chiropractors, they need at the end of the day, everyone needs a good program, whether you call it an exercise program, a rehab program, a corrective program, a neuromuscular correction program. Pilates became that meeting ground. And it was highly stimulating. Pilates came into my life in the late 70s. I have always been a mover. I'm a kinetically driven person. You know, at the age of almost 71. Most days I do three activities. Sometimes more, seldom less. I love moving.

SPEAKER_00

What were you doing as a child? What was your, you know, where was that inspiration?

SPEAKER_01

Swimming. Swimming was my primary sport, but I just loved moving. And then as a relatively young teen, I was introduced to yoga, which is quite unusual for someone of 15, 16 to fall in love with yoga and fall a little out of love with competitive sport. And then I started dancing in my late teens, and my interest for dance grew and grew. But I was introduced to Pilates, and it I can't say it was love at first sight. It interested me, it intrigued me. But it was one of many disciplines that I was exploring.

SPEAKER_00

Was that a dance school that you that Pilates was introduced to? Because many people who were introduced to it in the 70s.

SPEAKER_01

It was at the Bador Dance School in Israel. And I was taking dance lessons there. I wasn't with the company. But I had a colleague who was running the stud the Pilates studio there. And all credit goes to Alan Herdman for introducing Pilates to the dance company, and they set up a studio. And a colleague of mine, a dear friend, Dahlia Mantva, was running that studio, and she said, Why don't you come in and check it out? And uh I did and I loved it. There's a beautiful uh Russian ballet dancer that was working out at the time, Galina Panov. And I just sat there and I was intrigued by it. But it was one of many disciplines that I was exploring, both Eastern and Western. You know, I was very intrigued by um yoga, by the martial arts, by tai chi dance, of course, and then Pilates was another piece in the puzzle.

SPEAKER_00

And you've lived in lots of places, and I guess you've moved around with Pilates as well, and you know, been doing in college in different places. How has that influenced you in terms of your Pilates journey? Tremendously. Yeah, and I feel like you know, for you then to sort of, like you said, it was a part, it wasn't like you discovered it and it was your everything. You you still had all these other things, and yet you saw there was an opportunity, there was no curriculum, as you said, to do something with it. I kind of wonder was was your journey through different places that you lived, was that part of that journey?

SPEAKER_01

Definitely. And you know, Nick, when I look back on my life and on my career, it has been highly influenced by the fact that I lived in so many different places. I think also very much influenced by my family environment that encouraged an openness, a respect, an embrace of all cultures and all people. But that is the nature and the fabric of Bassi. And, you know, I'm very proud of our education, I'm very proud of our materials, of our software, of everything that we offer the students. But by far, what makes me the proudest is our community, this family of people that is so diverse. And I believe that it's because I planted seeds and was nourished in so many different countries and cultures that almost by default Bassi has been global and international because I was planting these seeds in the different places that I lived and was influenced by each culture and each place that I lived. So, yes, it's definitely had an influence on my life and my career, on my teaching, on everything.

SPEAKER_00

Because you spent quite a bit of time in Australia, and Australia feels like it's had quite a big Pilates scene for quite a long time. Would I be right in that? Or were when you were there, was there not much there?

SPEAKER_01

There wasn't much at all. No, there wasn't much at all. Alan Menezes was there. He was in Sydney, he had quite a large studio. You know, it seemed large to me at the time. I don't actually don't know how large it was. But there was a very small scene. Alan was gracious to invite me to teach at his studio. I gave a few workshops prior to get involved with dance at the McDonald's College. But there was a very small scene. It's kind of hard for people to realize how small Pilates was. Like you've just attended an event in this area. To think that I opened the first studio in this entire region seems inconceivable to people. When I say it to people, they think it's like I opened the first Starbucks. You know, you you kind of think, really? There was never a first. Yeah, they actually.

SPEAKER_00

When did you move here?

SPEAKER_01

1991.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

There was uh there was one other, I don't know, I've got to find out who opened first, but a wonderful teacher, Diane Diefendorfer, is was also in this area. And our studios probably opened around about the same time. But that's it. Yeah. You know, his was part of a dance school, it always was a little smaller. Mine grew and grew and grew and grew, but there was no other Pilates around.

SPEAKER_00

What gave you the confidence to make this your business? You know, in a in a place where I remember even when I opened my studio 10 years ago, people did not even understand what Pilates was. They thought the equipment was really weird. I mean, you must have had that tenfold, hundredfold. What gave you the confidence to kind of put all your chips in that basket and say, this is what I'm gonna do, and this will be great for people?

SPEAKER_01

You know, I've asked myself that question so many times because it seems quite outrageous to me now when I look back at it. You know, I came out here initially as a guest artist to perform and choreograph, and when I was out here from Australia, I met an orthopedic surgeon who attended one of my lectures and one of my talks about Pilates as dancing, but I decided to give a few talks on Pilates, and that was 1989 or 1990, and uh he invited me to come out and kind of work on a rehab program centered around Pilates. So I came out at his invitation, but I worked with him for about six months, then realized that it wasn't going to be a good collaboration. And then I worked with a couple of chiropractors for a while, and I was doing much more dancing than Pilates, teaching at uh the various colleges in this area, University of California, Irvine, UCI, Kell State, Long Beach, Riverside. So I but it was dance, mainly dance, but I was always mentioning Pilates. And there was just a point, probably late 1991, where I just felt intuitively that I want to open my own studio, that I'd worked with an orthopedic surgeon. It wasn't quite as successful as it was in Australia, this multidisciplinary approach. I'd worked with two chiropractors, and I felt that also had its limitations. And I decided I want to open a studio. And I didn't have any money. I didn't even have my green card at that time. The chips were stacked against me, and people didn't know what Pilates was. This orthopaedic surgeon did, these two chiropractors did, but very few people. And my appointment books that I kept for years really bear witness to that. I would have one person in the morning, one person in the afternoon, and slowly but surely that appointment book built up. Slowly but surely I started training teachers to work with me. And we built it up over the next probably three, four years. At its peak, we were probably doing around uh 65 to 70 sessions a day. A day.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

And about 320 to 340 a week.

SPEAKER_00

Who was coming? Who came at the beginning? Who were the people who first came?

SPEAKER_01

Regular people.

SPEAKER_00

Was it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And how do they, you know, what was their kind of Do they come in like they do now and say my back hurts? And I, you know, what were they coming for?

SPEAKER_01

Curiosity. Uh I was getting referrals. I I I will say that that like the chiropractors I'd worked with were referring people. Doctors started hearing about it, were referring people. But a lot of it, you know, there's a certain type of person that has a curious mind, always on the cutting edge of what is happening out there. And it's a hard question for me to even answer when I think, how did that grow? There's a wonderful book called The Tipping Point. That book uh always intrigued me because it speaks about these waves of popularity. How does it happen? It's hard to explain. Some things don't succeed and others do. I can't boast to having a great business plan. I didn't have a business plan at all. I certainly didn't have money behind me. I really didn't. I really didn't have much more than a couple of thousand dollars. And it was truly a leap of faith and a belief that I can do this. But I never envisioned anything like what Bassi is today. Not in my most ambitious of dreams.

SPEAKER_00

Tell me about Bassi then. So, Body Arts and Science Institute, where did that come from a name? What is the the sort of belief and philosophy behind why someone comes to Bassi and what they get versus maybe somewhere else?

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's body arts and initially it was just body arts and science. And I added the international to it because it started becoming so global. And then we just used that acronym and it became Bassi. I knew I didn't want to name it after myself. I hoped. It just wasn't me. I just wanted it to have a different name. And I wanted it to represent and illustrate who I am as a person. And I am truly a believer in art and science and the merging of the art and science, generally, but certainly when it comes to human movement. And so Basi is an amalgamation of art and science. Everything, every decision, every movement is based on that premise of being aesthetically pleasing, having an artistic appeal, but being able to justify it and explain it scientifically. So that that name came very naturally to me because I I felt that I wanted the name to represent who we are. Some people shy away from change, they don't like change, it it shakes their foundation. Whereas for me, change is challenge, change is stimulating. I'm always looking for how we can do things better. I'm never shy to say this was the best I knew a year ago, but today I know better. So we're gonna do we're gonna change it. It drives my faculty crazy.

SPEAKER_00

You know, there are 150 of them, and they're not easy thing, you know, changing the manuals, changing, you know, it's a lot to you know, it's a lot. It is. I think that's probably why people don't change. But I guess you can't put science in your name and not move with it.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. It's entailed endless work. It's kind of like owning a boat where you're continuously taking care of it. That's how it's been. It's you know, we're in about our 35th version of our manuals because I'm continuously changing them. And then we created what was groundbreaking at the time in 2010, it was Pilates Interactive and became Basi Interactive, which is a platform, a software platform, with all the movements in video, and you can sort them. And that was launched around the same time as Pilates Anytime. In fact, Christy was faculty at the time with Bassie. And that has been amazing to have a platform that the students can see me cueing every exercise and can sort those exercises by our block system or by parts of the body, by muscle groups. It's entailed updating the materials all the time, being able to maintain our strong roots with the original teachings of Joseph Pilades, but seeing it in a more contemporary context. I don't want to lose sight of where it comes from. But I always want to move forward with the needs of society, the needs of people today, and knowledge, what we know today. So I would say that our system is very precise, our focus on precision, but at the same time, our focus on flow. It's this duality, this yin-yang of everything, the art and science, the precision and the flow, the depth of the work, but also the joy in the work. There's this duality throughout. And I think the faculty are one of the differentiators is the very rigorous training that the faculty go through. It's not you come do a program for a weekend, it's not you'd even do a program, a specific program for a year. You have to meet criteria, and it can take you five years to get there where you start teaching others. So the materials together with excellent faculty, I think there is a spirit that is very hard to define. And I've always said to marketing people that come work for Bassi, promoting our material, promoting our courses, promoting all that is the easy part of what you have. But I charge you with encapsulating our spirit. That is an experience. It's very hard to describe an experience. It's very hard. So when we have our Learn from the Leaders conferences and you attend, and there's 350 joy-filled people from all over the world, from 40 countries, and they've come together not only for education but for celebration. To celebrate who we are and celebrate this Pilates community. How do you capture that? And that, that factor, that X factor, is what I think makes us unique.

SPEAKER_00

You've spoken about you were inspired by yoga and lots of other things, and I've heard you talking about how you really loved the flow that yoga had, and that you were passionate about bringing that into your work. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, absolutely correct. I I feel so strongly about emphatically about crediting people or systems when we are inspired by something. So I always credit yoga, Ashtanga yoga in particular, which was the yoga that I study for years, for the flow that Basi has, particularly in the matwork. Because I can honestly say that the fact that our mat work flows from one movement to the next, that concept of flow comes from my years of doing Ashtanga yoga because it does flow from one movement to the next. And I feel it's so important to acknowledge where we get our knowledge from, our ideas from, movements from. I don't think there's enough acknowledgement in our industry. To the point of, at times I think it it verges on plagiarism and in copyright infringements. That's not good. I could go into that, but it's not a part of the story I'd prefer to discuss. I want to keep this really positive. But crediting is so important. And yes, the the mat work is that flow, that concept of flow is definitely from yoga, but also because, as I said earlier, I'm a kinetic person. You met my wife earlier, and we met at a spa as invited to teach at this spa down in Mexico. I was invited to work with the staff as well as the guests. I observed their math classes, and I said, people aren't moving. People aren't getting a movement experience. They they're lying there and, you know, talking about the pelvic clock and the pelvic tilts and neutral spine and neutral pelvis, and but they're not getting a movement experience. And they said, Well, it's a challenge because people only come for a week. And you know, how are we gonna teach them 15, 20 exercises in a week? I said, you must. That's what they need to experience. Are they gonna do it perfectly? No, they won't do it perfectly in a month or a year, but it's more important that they have a movement experience that flow, you know, flow makes you feel good. It makes you feel good. Moving, movement makes you feel good. It's a state of mind, it's not just the body, it's the mind. Which, by the way, is one of the things that I think differentiates Bassi. It's very easy to say mind body. You know, those are those.

SPEAKER_00

I feel like now everybody says mind body. Everyone says mindful movement. That was our tagline for a while, and then recently my marketing team are like, everyone's saying mindful movement now, Nick, and they don't think they really mean it.

SPEAKER_01

No.

SPEAKER_00

I think it's a really good point.

SPEAKER_01

That is a good point because it's one thing talking your talk, but do you walk that talk? Flow is is one of those things that connects body and mind. It just you feel good, it's a state of mind. And yes, I credit yoga and I also my dance, you know, my dance career has a very strong influence, particularly seen in the matwork. The whole beginning of our class is very reminiscent of a Graham, a Martha Graham class. And you know, it's because of my years of doing Graham technique. So all those influences, now, don't get me wrong, I'm not creating some form of fusion between yoga and Pilates or dance and Pilates. It is Pilates, but it's been influenced by my years of doing yoga and dance, and and flow is, I'm so happy you identified that quality because it's such an important quality. And going back to that spa, by the way, at the end of the week, I showed them how you could do 20, 25 exercises and show give people an experience of a dynamic, athletic math class. Do they do it perfectly? No. But they get a joyful experience of moving.

SPEAKER_00

And I think that joyful experience is the key point here because, in the rise at the moment, of very athletic reformer, I so I would say as an outsider, what I see with Bassie is that it's got such depth in terms of the technique and the way that it's structured. It is athletic. It does have flow. It has got some changes of pace to it. Now, sometimes if you go and do an athletic class, in my opinion, taught quite poorly, a bit more like a boot camp, someone might say that has flow to it. However, it can often make you not feel very joyful at all because you feel like you're absolutely rubbish at this. So I think it's such a challenge, and it takes a very, very good teacher to be able to take your Mexico spa there for them to feel okay that they didn't get it, that that's okay. Right. And that it's taught in a way where you can meet yourself where you're at. Do you see that come up as a challenge for people? Because I think in the world now, there is this very beast yourself to the point of feeling like you're inadequate, actually, and it makes me so cross.

SPEAKER_01

You should be cross.

SPEAKER_00

Because I think joy is joy, joy is joy is what this practice has brought me, actually. And I don't want to go and be, it happened to me the other day, actually, and be like, oh my god, I feel so bad about myself from that. I'm a teacher. How does one be able to put some flow into it, have some pace in it, but not leave people behind?

SPEAKER_01

Nick, that's an incredible question. I mean, I'm so happy you asked that question and eloquently and passionately you did. I mean, I loved it the way you put it. That takes a skill teacher, that takes someone who has is immersed in athleticism, but is also immersed in the union of body and mind. And not just there to beat people up, not just there to make people feel inadequate, not just there to make your body hurt the next day and sweat. That's that's the easiest thing to accomplish. That's there to give you an athletic in-depth session that makes you walk out feeling physically exhausted and invigorated and inspired at the same and energized at the same time. You can be exhausted and energized at the same time. I had a surf session like that this morning. I came out exhausted, but just full of the joys of life, and that's that's what we're trying to get. But to have the skill to do that is very difficult. And again, I digress, but I think it's important to say that today our industry has split into. Is bringing together the concept, all those principles of Joseph Pilates, and putting it in a package that suits our world and society today. I'm so pleased you you know hit on that point that one type of session makes you walk out and feel inadequate, deflated, yeah, maybe dripping with sweat. Doesn't mean you're gonna feel good. The other makes you walk out just feeling, wow, I can take on the world, I feel so good. And you know what? I say to people in 2018 or 17, I was at an event in Italy, a Bassi event. There was this very moving moment that still I get chills when I think of it. When I realized that Bassi had started by being all about movement, and in the process, it had become a movement for positive change in the world. And that is how I see Bassi as a platform, as a movement for positive change, because you know that feeling we both know it well, when you walk out and you just feel energized, you feel good, you've got a smile on your face and a smile on your heart. And then you go and you encounter someone at the store and you smile because you're so excited with life, and then they smile, and then you go home, and you know, you go home to your husband, to your kids, or however you live, to your partner, it doesn't matter. You see your friends, you say, Wow, I'm just having such a good day. It's infectious, they then feel that. They then go out, and it's this ripple effect of positive energy, or a ripple effect of negative energy. It goes both ways. That is such a powerful concept, this ripple effect that we can send out into the world. That is what drives me. It's not whether I can teach another hundred today or another pelvic curl today or teaser today. And I'm certainly not going to argue on whether a teaser should be an inhale or an exhale. But I tell you what will excite me is if I can make someone feel good. If they walk out of my session and they just feel I learned something, I I just learned a new way of looking at something. That hunger for knowledge, and then going out into the world and just feeling positive.

SPEAKER_00

I'm so glad you brought that up. I was actually chatting to my colleague who's with me on this tour, helping me with the podcast. Um we were chatting in the car the other day, and I was talking about a friend of mine who had just got herself into a really negative mindset about how bad the world is as a state. Okay. And she basically, I think, had sort of shut down from I don't want to do this job anymore, I don't want to do this anymore. You know, what's the point? What's the point, Nick? What's the point? And I said, well, I feel I have three studios, Rale, and I feel exactly the same as you, that I feel like I do make a change in the world. I feel like I joke that when I did Pilates in the right way, I could walk out, I feel like I've lost three-stone and had a facelift. I walk out, I'm in love with myself, I'm happy about myself, I feel more positive about myself. You have to be positive to the world around you then. And you do see it, you absolutely do see that ripple change. And I feel passionate about in my studios, that's what I want our teachers to do. I always think I don't really care what you do in my class, as long as you walk out feeling awesome about yourself. That's my intention. And it's such an important point to make, actually, because most people I speak to on as part of this pod podcast project do talk about how good this work has made them feel. And I was at a conference this weekend and it was really, really good. And it was interesting talking to Christy Cooper at Pilates Anytime. I said, listen, you know, the data that you have on your platform, what are people searching for? She said, Athletic Reformer. And the conference very much lent into that. Fine. But it was all around innovation, and it was all around, you know, and we'll talk about your equipment, but you know, changing equipment, adding heat, doing this, doing that, doing the other. I actually came away from the conference thinking, you know, that small group that you talked about. I was like, that's the innovation in a way, because they're sort of not staying fixed in there, it must be like this and it has to be like this, as you said, being very open to change, but actually just staying rooted in the method and the ethos. I wonder, you talked about the mind-body connection. How does a teacher bring that to life in a class?

SPEAKER_01

That is such a great question, and it's the hardest thing. It's kind of like what I was talking about, Bassi, that it's hard to market a feeling. How do you teach mind-body? It's something that happens by osmosis. People feel it. It's a sensation that you give, and it's a quality. You know, it's like through my dance career, seeing performers that are technicians. They're good technically, but they don't convey a feeling, an emotion, something that moves you. Teaching Pinades is the same. You know, you can see a teacher who I differentiate between instructors and teachers. An instructor is instructing movements, and they are giving you instructions, and you're going through these instructions. A teacher is enlightening you to new ways of seeing things, giving you knowledge, and it can be small things, it can be big things. How do you teach that? We need to give people vehicles. You know, breath patterns is a way of connecting mind and body. Precision is a way of connecting mind and body because you cannot be precise without being aware, without being present, without being fully immersed in the moment, without having insight into your own body, into where the different parts of the body are. So precision is one of those vehicles that leads into that mind-body experience. Breath is, flow is, and the more experienced the teacher becomes, and the more they practice the work. You've got to practice the work. You've got to practice the work yourself, which I do every day. You are living it, and they are as I said, it's almost biosmosis. They see the you become a role model. Nick, a teacher is a guide. You are someone's role model, you are their guide through this work. Maybe even a mentor, and that is such a high title. But if you can be a mentor to someone, you are their guide. And I take that so seriously. I don't call myself a mentor, but if someone gives me that honor, I embrace it with gratitude. So it's a such a good question going back to your question. How do you teach mind body? You first of all need to believe it and live it. And then having these vehicles like precision, like breath, ways of connecting the mind and the body. But just shouting out instructions go, go, go, go, go, bum, bum, bum. Just creating new ways of doing things just to be different. That no, no, that that's not what you're doing. And the counting.

SPEAKER_00

The counting is cues. Exactly. Please don't count. I don't need you to count.

SPEAKER_01

No, I don't need you to count. I don't even need you to count the hundreds.

SPEAKER_00

No, I don't.

SPEAKER_01

One, two, three, four, five, dot, dot, dot. No, no. It's just no, it's taking away. The mind-body connection.

SPEAKER_00

Queuing's important too, isn't it? Like the way that you cue. And I can imagine to really get that flow that you're talking about as well. There's such a technique in how you can cue that together.

SPEAKER_01

Nick, years ago in 1992, I was asked by a fitness magazine to write an article about queuing. And I called the article the art of cuing. And that later became one of my signature workshops, The Art of Queing. Cueing is an art. And essentially, teaching comes down to cueing. And cueing is communication. If you are not a good communicator, you can't cue well. And if you can't cue well, you're not going to have a good relationship with someone that you're teaching. So queuing is huge. I think actually I'm so happy you mentioned queuing. Queuing is one of the ways to teach mind body. Cueing is huge.

SPEAKER_00

I always sort of joke, you know, our client base at our studios are very busy, type A, mostly women. And you know, an hour is it's meditation, it's mindfulness, it can be some rehabilitation, and of course it's strength and toning. But you know, that that's a damn good use of an hour if someone's really busy. And they come out and they just say, Wow, I feel, you know, so relaxed, and yeah, I've worked really hard. I just think that's brilliant.

SPEAKER_01

It is a great feeling. It's a great feeling to feel, you know, relaxed, but you've worked hard.

SPEAKER_00

What an honour to sit down with Rael and for him just to give me so much of his time, to speak so openly. He then recommended, I said, where would you go for lunch? He recommended somewhere down in Laguna Beach. He said, Are you gonna go now? Oh my goodness. It was the highlight of my trip. What a view. The food was amazing. I had a little glass of Californian rose. I've been trying to find a Californian rose the whole time I was there. They just had French rose. I found one, it was immense. It was so good. And he then emailed me, like to see if I get back okay and how much he enjoyed the conversation. And he was just, you know, this is what I'm realizing when you're getting to meet these absolute greats. They are great and their knowledge is great, but they're also just lovely. And I think that is partly how they've become who they are. They've got people to buy into what they're doing, they've got people to really support them with that. And Raya absolutely was one of those. Come back later this week, we will have part two.