Beyond the Reformer

How to Choose the Right Pilates Movements for Rehab with SJ Walls

• Nic Lenny • Season 4 • Episode 46

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Too often Pilates teachers feel pressure to diagnose, label or overcomplicate movement.


In reality, the most powerful thing we can do is help people move with confidence.


In this episode, Nic speaks with clinician, Pilates educator and biomechanics specialist Sarah Jane Walls about the role of clinical reasoning in Pilates and why simplicity is often the most effective approach.


SJ shares her journey from competitive runner to Pilates teacher and clinic owner, explaining how Pilates quite literally changed her life after a serious injury in her early twenties.


Since then she has spent nearly three decades studying the body, completing multiple degrees including sports therapy, podiatry and public health, and is currently completing a PhD focused on biomechanics and diagnostic ultrasound.


Together they discuss what Pilates teachers really need to know when working with injuries or in rehabilitation settings.


SJ explains why communication and curiosity matter more than having every answer, how to assess movement by simply getting people moving, and why the feet often hold the key to understanding pain elsewhere in the body.


Timestamps

00:00 Intro to SJ

02:33 What clinical reasoning actually means in Pilates

04:08 Trusting the Pilates method when working with complex cases

05:30 SJ’s journey into Pilates

10:26 Why lifelong learning is essential for movement professionals

13:14 Mentors, business skills and building a successful studio

15:50 Helping runners understand why they need Pilates

19:40 Personalising group classes so every client feels seen

27:28 Partnering with clinics and building referral relationships

30:22 The value of shadowing clinicians and building referrals

31:56 The most important skills for Pilates teachers working in rehab

34:18 Assessing clients by getting them moving first

38:57 What Pilates teachers should look for when assessing feet

46:35 Correcting movement patterns from the ground up

50:11 Orthotics, rehabilitation and when they are actually useful

53:22 Quick-fire questions


If you found this conversation helpful, make sure you subscribe to Beyond the Reformer so you never miss an episode.


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Connect with SJ


Get 5% off Balanced Body Pilates equipment with the code SOUL PILATES 

SPEAKER_00

Coming up on today's episode of Beyond the Reformer.

SPEAKER_02

Pilates quite literally saved my life. I think sometimes we get too deep into putting labels onto things. It's just about what that client is needing in that moment, in that day.

SPEAKER_00

Today I'm joined by Sarah Jane Wards, movement specialist, educator, and founder of Pilates Hub in Glasgow, whose work focuses on clinical reasoning, rehabilitation, and helping movement professionals better understand how the body actually functions.

SPEAKER_02

Our job as Pilates teachers is to help our clients move and feel great and not to have them frightened of a movement and frightened of moving their body in a particular way. I genuinely thought it was Pilates was for lazy people. How humbled was I. Some high-end golden nuggets. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Hello everybody and welcome back to Beyond the Reformer. I'm Nick Lenny. I'm a Pilates teacher, a studio owner, an educator, and your host for these conversations. In today's episode, we dive into an area that many Pilates teachers feel curious about, but sometimes maybe a bit unsure of: clinical reasoning. SJ brings really clear and accessible ways of thinking about how we can observe movement, how we support clients with injuries, and why understanding things like foot function and gait patterns can be so important in our teaching. Before we get going with today's conversation, I would just love it if you could click on the like, subscribe, follow button wherever you are. It's a tiny thing, but it makes a huge difference to the podcast. So thank you so much if you've done it. And if you haven't, please, please, please, please, please, can you do it? All right, let's get into today's conversation. SJ, thank you so much for joining me on Beyond the Reformer this week. Thank you for inviting me, Nick. I'm excited to be here. Well, I'm looking forward to our conversation. And I wanted to start with, you know, we talk a lot about on this podcast and generally, I guess, in our Pilates world, about exercises and cueing in Pilates, but I think we talk a lot less about maybe clinical reasoning and the choices of exercises that we give to someone and the decision making that we go. And I know that that's a topic that's close to your heart. So for you, what does clinical reasoning actually mean in the context of Pilates and movement?

SPEAKER_02

So yeah, I suppose I'm sitting in probably quite a different environment than most people. I am on a clinic day-to-day, so I am a clinician, but Pilates, Pilates instructor, always first, always first. I think that the way that I think about this is when I'm working with clients, patients, whatever terminology you choose to use, I think sometimes we get too deep into putting labels onto things. It's just about what that client is needing in that moment, in that day, accepting their body that day. So unless I'm dealing with a patient or a client who's got something really specific that I can't do or I can't work with them, I don't get too caught up on that. So when we think about clinical reasoning, what I'm doing, I want to always be working with research. I always want to be working within my scope of practice and where my expertise is. But I just want to move that body. I just want to get that person moving with confidence, feeling better, leaving when they came in and actually feeling empowered. So I think sometimes maybe Pilaris teachers maybe put us maybe slightly on a bit of a pedestal, like, oh, they know better. Oh, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna do something wrong because they know something that I don't. And when actually, most of the time, movement's always going to be the right thing for for everybody, but it's just the right movement and the quality of movement for that body. I hope that answers it. I try I try to keep things really simple and not overcomplicate that clinical side and bringing that into movement. Movement is generally always going to be a good thing. Generally.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think I love that you share it like that because I think you're absolutely right. I think sometimes we can get caught up on, oh, you'll like this because X, Y, and Z. And what I've learned over the years is like nobody ever knows the answer to that, actually. And really, if we just look at the whole body and follow the principles of what we've taught, like we will inevitably help balance somebody out a little bit more. 100%.

SPEAKER_02

And actually, when we use language that is scary or negative, it puts fear into that client's mind as well. And we want to, our job as Pilaris teachers is to help our clients move and feel great and not to have them frightened of a movement and frightened of moving their body in a particular way. Obviously, knowing that if there are some contraindications to that, knowing what they are, but not making that client so scared that they're freeing to do anything. So movement's generally always going to be a good thing to do. I think that, you know, listening to some of your past podcasts and things, and I agree with a lot of the guess on there, is that you have to know the basics. You have to have done good training with a good training school initially to have that confidence to, no matter who's coming into you, to be able to work with that body and know what to do with them and not freak out thinking, oh, what am I going to do with this person? Because I don't know. I don't know everything. You're never going to know everything. Nobody knows everything. But as long as you have the basics down and you have and you're building upon that, you're always learning, always learning. Nobody knows everything. Every day is a school day. And as long as you have what's, you know, the the best interest of that client's is first and foremost in mind, then you should, you'll never go wrong. You'll never go wrong. Just always get them moving, get them moving safely, but just make sure that you're always learning and growing and know where you're at in your journey. And it's okay to be early on in your journey. You don't have to immediately be this expert. Whatever that means. What does an expert mean?

SPEAKER_00

I've shared this story on the podcast before, but I when I first opened my studio, like I had to jump in with two feet. There was no studios in Bristol where I live at the time. So if I wanted to work, I had to open my own studio. And so I opened it within an osteopathic practice. So they were so kind and they would send people to me. But you know, I am straight out of graduation. I really, you know, I've done a really good course. I've been working for two years, kind of on my hours, and I'm getting presented with these really complicated cases. And I remember thinking, oh my God, what am I gonna do? And to your point, I just was like, I'm just gonna follow what I've been taught. I'm just gonna trust what I've been taught is what I need. And these people would tell me the most transformative stories. I mean, these are people who've been under medical care, various, you know, physiotherapists, osteopaths, surgeons, like for 10 years, you know, they've had a long history. And then they would tell me things like, you know, the night, the day I sleep see you, that night is the only night I don't wake up in pain. You know, you're like, wow, like it's amazing how this work can be. I'd love to delve deeper into that, SJ, but I'd love to go back to your story reading because I think it often shapes who you are and the beliefs that you have. Like, what is your story? Because if you're watching this on our YouTube, you'll see you're not sat in a Pilates studio, you know, you're sat in a more clinical practice. So I'd love to understand how movement and that clinical world kind of came together for you.

SPEAKER_02

We all come from different backgrounds, and that is a strength. Use your background, whatever that may be. Mine was I used to be a professional runner or semi-professional, and you know, Pilates was not something I don't know why I say Pilates, I am Scottish and I'm Glassby Jin. But anytime I say Pilates, I say it with an American accent. And I don't know why. Anyway, sorry people. It's just I I am I always get made fun of. Anyway, Pilates, I'm trying to say it's Scottish, um, was something that generally I looked at and thought that was for older women who didn't want to sweat, who were just wanted to go for lunch and not get their hair messed up. That was just, I just thought, what are they doing? And I was very much in that realm of running activity, high-energy things. Now, my first undergraduate was sports and exercise science, which essentially qualifies you not to do much. So you you you're not like a physiotherapist, you're not, you're you're not a clinician. So I ended up becoming a personal trainer. So I did a lot of running with my clients, and then I ended up injured. So that's how I found Pilates because Pilates quite literally saved my life. So that was back in 1999. I did my initial training with Michael King. And back then it was a bit weird. It was it was like it was kind of like yoga back then, where it was kind of it wasn't really what it is today. It was nothing like that. It was weird. I remember the first course I ever put on, somebody asked me if they would they would be able to fly the flight solo by the time they finished their pilot training. I'm not joking. That was a real phone. Oh, and they weren't joking. So nobody knew what it was. And for me, it was it saved me. I ended up with herniated discs L4L5 in my early 20s, and quite literally I couldn't even self-care. It was it was the darkest days of my life, and that's how I found Pilates. And around about that time, I went through some personal things. I left my husband at the time, and I left my job, and things massively changed. And I literally left everything and set up by myself, renting community halls. I did not have any money, no investment, nothing. When I say I had nothing, I had nothing. And I just rented halls. I was making a loss. I was it was costing me more to rent the room than I was making, but I just had this no, I'm going to stick with this. I love the results that you get from this are just so amazing. So I persisted, learned how to build websites because I couldn't afford how to hire some. So learned as I went. And then from there I opened my first studio within about a year and a half of doing that. And it's just grown from there. I've had this is like my seventh studio now. I now have three studios. And in that journey, I've always been a massive avid reader, self-development. So some of my early mentors were Jim Rohn. If you don't know Jim Rohn, get to know Jim Rohn or your Tony Robbins, business mentor, action coaches. So learning as much about teaching Pilates, but also learning about business and self-development and growing myself, because you've got to learn to be able to then do owning a Pilates studio isn't just a good Pilates teacher. You have to be a good leader, you have to be a good business person, you have to be good at marketing. So all of that journey, and then through all of that, pretty much was always back at uni. In that time, I did uh uh so my sports and exercise science. Then I then went into sports therapy, sorry, the sports therapy qualification because I wanted to learn more manual therapy, because the more I learned about the body, the more I wanted to know. The more I knew, the more I knew I didn't know, so I wanted to go deeper. Then I did another undergraduate degree in podiatry because I wanted to, I was really into biomechanics, so that's where I dug deep into that. Then I did a master's degree at the University of Edinburgh in public health because I was really interested in empowering patients and giving them autonomy for their health. And then I'm currently do a PhD in biomechanics, rheumatology, and focus in medical diagnostic ultrasound. So and along with that, did a PG Cer in diagnostic ultrasound. Now that's a 27-year journey in the hut. Every part of that has rolled. There's never been a year that I've not been at university doing some degree or some postgraduate certificate or something, because that really floats my boat, and that's why I'm a massive learn, learn, learn. It doesn't need to be in at uni, it can be short courses. I've done lots of them as well. Back in the day, I did YMC, exercise to music, all your Les Mills stuff. I've done them all, your Les Bums and Tums class, you name it. You could drop me in anywhere and I could teach a class. Pilates has always been the just the backbone. Our whole clinics. We have three clinics in Glasgow with the Pilates Studios as part of that. Everybody that comes to our clinic does Pilates. Every patient does Pilates. Every physiotherapist that works with us has to learn Pilates. Even the podiatrists, they have to learn Pilates. It is part of our overall values. It is, it's the backbone of our business, is Pilates.

SPEAKER_00

So it's so interesting to hear how Pilates kind of was what kick-started that journey. What do you think drives you to be that lifelong learner? And do you have a desire to kind of know it all? Or do you I mean, because I think sometimes, you know, you said it yourself, like the more you learn, the more you realise you don't know anything, and that's a beautiful and powerful thing, really. Totally, Nick.

SPEAKER_02

Totally. The more you know, the more you know you don't know. I think that that's quite a deep question. So for me growing up, I grew up in a very working class background. Nobody in my family went to university. It wasn't expected that you would go to university. And I think being part of sport and exercise at a young age, and that was a school teacher that got me involved in that, that gave me confidence. It taught me resilience, it taught me I got to mix with children from all backgrounds. I didn't, I grew up in a single mum family, grew up in benefits, we didn't have anything. So when you grow up like that, you think, oh, that's not for me, that life or that vision, you know, they're not for people like us. But because I was in a different environment with kids, with people from all backgrounds, finding that I was really good at something gave me this confidence. And with that, because I was told, I remember at 16, staying on school to do my hires and being told by my family, oh no, you need to get a job because you need to start paying your way. And I was like, Well, I'll move out. So I did and went to university. And it was just this drive of nobody's gonna tell me I can't learn or I can't go to university. I'm not gonna let money stop it, I'm not gonna let circumstances stop it. And I think that's really that's quite a deep answer, but that's the truth.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for sharing that. I think it's always so interesting, isn't it? To sort of our drive often does come from quite a deep place. I also love that Pilates was kind of near the beginning of that as well. And I've had lots of guests, it's certainly my experience as well, who've shared that you know, sometimes when you slow down and you tune in, you get to know who you actually are as a person when maybe that's not how you've been brought up. Like I remember having this sort of realization that I feel like I've been lied to my whole life. There is a different way I can be, you know. Who thought? And that was through Pilates as well. And similarly, I think, you know, you talked about your drive around business as well. I think when you have nobody to back you up, you have to learn. I mean, or you crumble, and plenty of people do, but you're you obviously had that drive to, you know, understand as well that no amount of courses in terms of movement courses and all the other things you've done in that sense are going to help you run your business. Like the training around business, it's like another comprehensive training, isn't it? I say this to people so often on the podcast because I hope people know, like, please don't go and open a studio. I mean, I did it and you probably did it, but it's hard.

SPEAKER_02

I cannot tell you invest in, I think because I always had running coaches, right? So I always had a coach. So a coach for me was something that was natural, and I get it, especially in the UK. Maybe in the US, they're used to kind of going to counselling and talking about stuff and coaches, and it's kind of that here we're a bit odd in the UK. We're a bit conservative, aren't we? We don't like to talk about stuff and you know, stiff up our lip and all of that. You just get on with it and you just work harder and you work till you die. That's kind of the British way. I think I just seeked people who could who I could learn from. And my first, the first mentor that I stumbled across was Jim Roan. And I cannot and he I still listened. I mean, Jim Rohn's been dead for years, but I still listen to Jim and his old audio tapes. If you've not listened to Jim Rohn, if you're listening to this, go and look up Jim Rohn and have Jim in your life. You need that. And he just, from a mindset perspective, if you're needing a kick up the bum or a motivation or a yes, I can do this, Jim just sets that tone. And Jim Rohn was Tony Robbins' mentor, you know, Tony Robbins, the big American. That was his mentor. And and various people through the years. So when you're I I learned really quickly that I needed to learn about business. I needed to learn about how to know my numbers. So I did I went away and did a wee college course in accounts. I mean, I was awful at it. Awful. My balance sheet never balanced once. But I thought I need to know what I'm doing and I need to know what this accountant's talking about. Because I I need to know, you know, we now have these things called your scorecards, so we know what our KPIs are, what our key things are that we need to be looking at. But I wouldn't have had a clue. And having other, so whether it's been the entrepreneurial circle I've been members of, or your business chamber of commerce, women in business, there's lots of organisations just been around other amazing people. You always learn something no matter where their starting point is, they will teach you stuff too. And also Brendan Bruchard was uh who's another kind of thought leader, lots of them over the years, and I've I've invested, oh my goodness, heavily into those sorts of trainings and you know, their eye-watering amounts of money, but money well spent, really, really and it's interesting that you'd had, like you said, you'd had sports coaches when you were younger.

SPEAKER_00

So I guess you'd kind of actually got that mindset. I think it's a really good point you make. These can feel like such a lot of money, and we're not really used to doing it a lot of the time. But once I had done it, I was like, this is the best money I've ever spent. And now I have mentors like for everything. Every year I'm like, what mentor am I gonna get this year? What am I gonna learn this year? So I love that. I want to circle back if I can, SJ, to your running life because what popped into my head as you were saying that is I think runners can struggle a bit with Pilates, even though it's probably the thing they eat the most. I was at a barbecue last summer, some random person was there chatting to me, and they were like, Oh yeah, Pilates, it's just too slow because you know I'm into running, I like everything fast and pace. And I said, you know, it's so true because I have found runners quite tricky to work with over the time because they sort of struggle to maybe understand what we're about until like yourself, something goes wrong. I wonder because you had been, you know, a serious runner, do you come up against that or do you have any tips of how we can get people, you know, because they 80% of runners get injured, I believe is the statistic.

SPEAKER_02

The problem you have, and I I was one of them. I was, I genuinely thought it was for Pilates was for lazy people. How humbled was I? I was awful at it when I'd started. What they're looking for is something different. That running is a a solitude thing, it's a mental health thing, and it's also the endorphins that they get released from that breath, that air, that pounding, the running, the it's like a it's it's like hypnosis. So they're getting something different out of that, and Pilaris is entirely different. They will be dreadful at it, most of them. Dancers pick it up well because it it's in tune with what they are used to doing. But sports people, whether it be boxers, golfers, runners, they're all challenging. Now, the way you work with them, I've learned over the years, nearly 30 years of doing this, is you find their weakness, okay? What's their thing? And what is it that's holding them back from whether it be for the golfers, okay, you're playing off nine, but let's get you to playing off six. If you do this, this is going to improve your power in your swing. If you do this, this is going to reduce the load off that knee, and you're not going to have that knee pain that's going to knock you out of that season. If you do this, so it's about finding that thing that motivates them, and it's usually that competitiveness, that thing that keeps them doing the thing they're doing. So I almost freeze Polaris as the health insurance for allowing them to continue to do the thing that they love doing. You gotta do this, just like brushing your teeth in the morning, you gotta do it. You wanna keep doing that, you gotta do that.

SPEAKER_00

So you actually, it's kind of almost the reasons to doing it. It's not like you change, because sometimes I think, you know, should we just go in a bit harder and give them more of what they're looking for and try and sprinkle some of this in? So you're like, no, unapologetically do what we do, but give them the reasons they should stick with it.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, 100%, because there is nothing that needs changed with the method. You don't need to make it harder, you don't need to make it faster, you don't need to be pulsing and adding flows and making anyway. You get my gist. You don't need to reinvent the wheel. You just need to make it specific to them. We're doing this because of this. So if I'm doing footwork and we want that hip dissociation, okay, we're thinking about that pelvis. See how you're dumping out your lower back when you're running there, right? This we're gonna get some control there. So as you're doing this, you're feeling that, you're extending through the legs, you're drawing up, you're you're just your cues change, but the moves don't change. It's just how you deliver it. It's that communication. You're delivering something that's specific to that person in that sport. Yeah, they might do a different amount of, you know, you might do more repetitions or you might have more focus or you might have but no, you're not reinventing the wheel, you're just getting that buy-in. It's a little bit of reverse psychology, I suppose. Motivational interviewing, I suppose it is, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

And I like the idea of actually changing your cues around what's important to them. And, you know, I guess that goes back into what you've especially if you're seeing them in a private, what you've chatted to them about and you know a little bit more about what's going on with them.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my goodness, yeah. Like see those parts see when you see when you stand up. So however you all um get your health questionnaires filled out, that's gold dust. Oh my goodness. So when I'm in a class and it's bet like I I d I do a lot of like I only teach, I'm only on the timetable two times a week now and the rest of it's all private. So when I'm getting to a group class, they're they're they don't really know me. Like I I am like, oh no, she's gonna kill us. Who's this? You know how you win them rounds. It doesn't matter where you're I know that I can get anywhere in the world and they would love it at the end of the class because I make it about them. So if I'm teaching to six, to eight, to nine, to ten to one, okay everybody, who we got in the room, right? Start up there, name, what are you looking for today? Any injury 30 seconds, just round the room, what we got. That I then that's in there. And when I'm teaching, it's the name. Julie, I want you to bring that down a bit. Remember, you were speaking about your back. I want you to really slow that bridge down. Diana, actually, when you're doing this, see if you do so.

SPEAKER_00

It's just that little bit. It's that kind of one-to-one in a group class, isn't it? That feeling of individual person like that. People love it.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god, they will they will salivate over you. They love attention. People want the attention. And then if you're comfortable with your tactile cueing, because I am a manual therapist, I'm very hands-on. I obviously ask permission and I'll say, Am I okay if anybody does not want me to touch them? I've never in nearly 30 years teaching had somebody no, say to me no. Never. Because I mean you're not poking, there's a way to touch. So if you don't know how to touch, definitely do some training on manual cueing and things. But oh, the the beauty of that is people love it. Love it.

SPEAKER_00

Tactile cue, I think a lot of teachers get very scared about tactile cueing. I think, as you said, I think some courses just don't touch upon it. So you need to go and maybe learn a bit more about it. But I often say to in my trainings, I'm like, people go for massages. Like people, and they're like, oh yeah, I haven't really thought of it like that. It's like, you know, there's very rarely you find a person who doesn't like a massage. They're like, oh yeah, okay, I suppose I haven't retought of it like that.

SPEAKER_02

I'm I'm just naturally a very tactile person anyway. So it's just that that sometimes just that touch of somebody when they're doing something, just that reassurance, well done. You're you're really good. It could just be on their arm, it could just be enough, you're doing well. And it's just that human contact is is so powerful. So yeah, but I what I would say is do spend some time. I mean, I'm sure there are training, trainings that you can do. Certainly, we we run uh the clinical Pilates methods. So generally the people that are coming on that are usually clinicians anyway. So you're we're we work with our hands, so but if you've got no experience of that, do some training, do some training with it because it's it's super powerful and it will it just elevates that experience for that participant, that person. It really just raises it up. It's just fantastic.

SPEAKER_00

Esther, I'd love to talk to you about your Pilates studio. So there, and we'll talk about the the other work that goes around your practice as well in a moment. But do you refer to it as clinical Pilates as the studios, or how do you frame what you do?

SPEAKER_02

So, yeah, that kind of the branding and how we do it. So, what we have, we've got three studios and they've all got clinics attached to them. So we have classes that are called more kind of classic, which is just true to the source, and they're taught by it could be anybody, it could be a clinician teaching that if they're a Pilates teacher, or it could be a Pilates teacher going in and teaching that, and that is do not mess with the system. Do not mess with the system. The person will start with usually either like a beginner's course, so whether that's in one-to-one setting, or whether they do at least five beginner classes. We say at least five, but it could be ten, it could be everybody's different, and we're very honest with that. We're like, look, just do some beginners, get this in your body. So we have reformers, we've got Cadillac, Wanderchair, we have the full the full repertoire, but we only offer tower and reformer and mat in group settings, and then the other equipment is in small group settings that is generally always run by a healthcare professional. So, in terms of how we phrase it, we would call them just our classic classes, and then we have strength classes. So we call them that because some people want to use weights in bands and also have a little bit of contemporary, whatever word you want to put on that, but maybe want to have a different feel of it. But in my studio, it is imperative that the core, that like the base foundation of whatever class you're teaching is rooted in the classical work. So if you're doing, for example, you're doing, you know, something as simple as a shoulder bridge, that shoulder bridge, and you maybe you want to do pulses and leg raises and add stuff in, fine, that can go into a strength class. If you're wanting to do some variation of your standing split, something different, then that belongs in a strength class. Don't mess about with that in the classical flow. So that's kind of how we how I try and keep the quality of what we're doing, regular CPD as well for all our instructors. That's happening usually once a month, anyway, regular meetups. And then we then have our clinical classes. So we have general population, they've usually graduated from a clinical class into general, or they're getting one-to-ones. And then the clinical classes are it's just full of all sorts. They can have so many things. It could be the hip replacement client, the MS client. You've got you know, somebody who's got, you know, peripheral neuropathy and diabetes or learning difficulties, or it could be anything. And they're in a mixed class, are they? They're in a mixed class together. So they can be, but not always, only if they've been given the green light. So people who have got a healthcare condition or an injury come and see the clinician first. So they get a full assessment first. So they will see a clinician, and then we then build a management plan out from that. So what then happens with that is that management plan is that patient's management plan that might include one-to-one sessions, they might be getting some clinical appointments with that for a particular injury, and then that then leads them into the possibly the clinical group classes, but not everybody is able to do them because there's four people in that. So they need to be able to be in a session where they are able to be safe in an environment where there's three other people, including themselves, the before. So not everybody reaches that point. But if we're wanting them to come three or four times a week, then we need to have various different times and different options for them. So those clinical classes are always uh led by a healthcare professional. So that's because it that would not be fair on a Pilates teacher because they're usually quite complex and lots going on. However, a lot of those people will go to the clinical classes but also go to general population, if you want to call it that, normal classes as well, because they've maybe got an injury in their back or they've maybe got a health condition, but they're they're actually okay, but they just like that clinical attention. They like that in the class, in that is it always the Pilates method? No. It's very specific to those people. So, for example, in those sessions, we might be doing myofascial release, we might be doing trigger point release, we might be using foam rollers and balls and arcs and spine correctors and all sorts of stuff. It's based on who's in the room and what they are needing in that moment and the method is used where the method is relevant.

SPEAKER_00

It must be so nice for you know patients who come to your clinics because it's got this kind of full circle and supportive environment. For studio owners who are maybe out there or people working in studios, it's really nice, isn't it, to partner with practices? Would you recommend that? And how would you recommend that? You know, if you didn't have studios but people were reaching out to you, what would interest you? Especially, you know, one of the things come up on the podcast a few times is physiotherapists don't necessarily actually really know what Pilates is, and we think that they would. So, you know, with the experience that you've had and those working with, how could someone like myself partner with a practice to be able to do what you're doing, but maybe not just in the one location?

SPEAKER_02

It's going to be different for different practices, right? A really important thing in your area is networking and getting yourself out there and just being visible. I think the visibility of that, so your own personal brand is really important. So you as a person, you as a teacher, or you as a studio, so that you're able to be the almost authority in that area. This is what we do. We primarily, our clinics, our clients are for generally for women over 40. I kind of joke and say they're burnt out, burst over 40 professionals. That's our demographic. That's who we target. They're me, knackered.

SPEAKER_00

They're me. Yeah, basically, I feel like when you're in a studio owner, you attract yourself.

SPEAKER_02

Totally. They're there in abundance. We don't do pre- and post-natal. We don't do none of that. That's not our thing. You have to have pathways to signpost those people to those people. So you only get to know that by networking, getting out of your studio and meeting other people, go to things. So that's the first thing, networking. Then from there, invite them in. Now that will be difficult to get them in because they're busy. So, for example, I get an email yesterday from somebody who does something. I'm not going to the details, but that person's basically said, Can I take you out for dinner? Now she's taking me out for dinner because she's like, I just want to spend an hour with you. I'll happily take you. And actually, you can bring your partner as well if you like. And I just want to sit and talk to you about stuff. So you need to make it worth your while, right? It needs to be something in it for both of you. So when you're approaching practices, it needs to be, hi, I do this, and I would love to be able to refer my clients to you and also show you what I can do for your patients to help you with your patients' rehab, right? Because those practices need places that they can trust to send their patients, but they may not necessarily have the time to come out and explore what you do. So it's about slowly drip feeding and educating them in what you do. So that's all your social media, your website, everything you're putting out there, your personal brand, get it out there. Talk to those people, ask, tell them what you do and what you can do, write to them. Don't just do it once. Go in and see them, email them, just keep doing it. And then eventually you will you will get there. But know that they're really busy. Like I'll always say to people, see if I've not got back to your email, please just follow up. It's 300 emails deep. Okay. It's just I've starred it and I've I've not, it's been lost. So don't just do one and think, oh, that's enough. They've not got back to me. No, just keep keep going. Lumpy mail. Oh, lumpy mail is good. Post them something and put something lumpy in it. So, you know, if you get something in the mail and it's got something in it, you're like, what's this? Handwrite it. So send them something like maybe it's a nice biscuit and say, hey, have a cup of tea and read this. Hi. I don't know. Just get creative and make your communication stand out. Just do something a bit different and give them something, an invitation to come and try, or something where they can easily, an easy pathway that they can send their patients to you. All right. Gwen in Shadow, we have people, we are, oh my goodness, our doors always open. We've got Pilates teachers that come in and spend clinical days with us because we I want them to see what we do clinically, see how we assess a patient, see what happens, see how we build a management plan out, and then see how why we're designing, the why behind that movement, the why we're saying what they're doing. So a lot of practices would probably be the same. It's just we don't we don't ask. Can I come in and shadow? Yeah, all right. Yeah. And that you build relationships. So don't be shy, get outside, network, send some lumpy mail, send them something, like a bit of chocolate or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Send them something. What skills do you think that Pilates teachers need to have to be good at working with clients in a rehab setting? Obviously, in your studio, you have some healthcare professionals who are also Pilates teachers, but you know, for the Pilates teachers who are getting it, because we do get these people in a lot in my studio anyway. What do you see as key sort of skills and expertise teachers need to have? Lesson.

SPEAKER_02

It's not about freaking out about knowing your anatomy, knowing your illnesses, knowing your pathologies, know it, do you know what that will come? That will come. So the most important thing you could, the most important skill you can have is communication. Listen, ask questions. And if you don't know what something is, there's times where patients come into my clinic room and I have no idea what it is they've got when they tell me, I'm like, what is that? And my question is, how does that impact your life? And they will tell you the answers are there, they have the answers. So communication, listen and ask questions, have empathy. And if you have that, the rest of the stuff will come be curious and be a lifelong learner. If you want to work in a rehab setting, then just have that on your vision board and just work towards that. You you will make it happen. But you just gotta everyday plug away, plug away, plug away, be inquisitive, but just you know, encourage those people to come in and don't be don't be frightened. And when you get something, you think, hmm, I would love to collaborate with a healthcare professional, whoever that is, just ask. Hi, can I come in and spend an afternoon with you? Hi, can I come in and shadow? So only we learn. Yeah, and finding good people that around you, so good mentors if you can get them. There's a lot of really good people out there that are willing to give their time for free.

SPEAKER_00

And I think listening is actually a really hard skill. You know, we can sometimes be really guilty, can't we, of filling the silence, especially if you're a lot of us get into quite chatty people because we like people. But let's say you've you've sat with this person, you've talked to them, you've listened, you've asked good questions, you're understanding more about their life, what's going on, what how this has impacting them. Like, how do you start to put a program together that is going to hit the mark? You know, we've talked about experience as part of this, but is there a place to go? Like, where do you start with someone? How do you visually assess them as well?

SPEAKER_02

So we have set protocols, and and I suppose they come from research and and clinical guidance. So we usually work somewhere along maybe the nice guidelines or certainly research. But if somebody's coming in and let's just see, it's non-specific lower back pain. Okay, I think we all get them. Non-specific lower back pain, right? That's everybody's hand gets them daily on the daily. Um, I think I've got some of that as well. So non-specific lower back pain. So the first thing I would be doing is just watching them move. So you would you'll have done your screening, you've looked at them. You may you may want to do a posture screening. That can be something quite official. We'll sometimes do official posture screenings because it's great for patient education and for them to see. So that comes from my public health background and it helps them understand. So a little bit of that can be good if that's something you're comfortable in. But the best place to assess is get them moving. Get them moving. You see it, it just it's there. So when somebody's lying down, something as simple as the footwork. Now I am a podiatrist, that's a big part of my life, is amongst other things. I truly believe that having those strong foundations, I always kind of say to people, you know, think about your feet like a structure of a building. If things are wrong down here, it's going to have an effect all the way up the chain. And so footwork for me is like, I love it. So I would get them on the reformer and I'd be like, right, okay, pop your heels on. How do they get on the reformer? Are they gingerly getting down? Are they able to lie down? Are they able to lie on their back? Am I having to put the headdress up? You know, have they got that kyphotic port? So you're just watching all of this stuff. Are they struggling to breathe? Because, you know, there's there's maybe some tightness through the chest. And and then footwork, okay. I'd and I just get them moving. Don't paralyze them by giving them, oh my god, get yourself into neutral spine and let's do this and breathe and shut up, stop it. Just move, just push that carriage out and come back in. Push the carriage out and come. And then you tidy them up as they go, just get them moving. And then from there, what I'm looking at is, well, how are they moving? Are they loading in a particular way? Are they squinting maginty? Are they hyperextending through that knee? Is their back moving as they're going? So usually what you'll see there is that there's maybe some dysfunction between what's happening in the lower limb up to the pelvic area. So maybe they're in that more anterior pelvic tilt, maybe they're dumping into the lower back, maybe there's tightness through the lower back. So usually from there, I would then be like, great, okay. And a few little tweaks and I'd maybe take them into a little shoulder bridge. Let's see how they can articulate the spine. I'm doing the rehab as I'm also, every move they're doing is leaving me cues. Every move they're doing is leading to the next move. I don't always stick to, oh, right, we're now going to do this, because it depends on that person.

SPEAKER_00

You explain that so beautifully, SJ, because I think we can sometimes get a little caught up. Because I I I see, I feel like there is definitely the sort of teacher out there who is brilliant at privates, but it's not everyone. There are some teachers who I feel like they can't convert privates into long-term privates, even though the client kind of needs that. And there are other teachers that you just know if you send somebody to them, they'll be with them forever for good reasons because they love it and they get something out of it. And it does seem to be down to this fine balance of some teachers, I think, get moving too quickly. They don't do enough questioning. And so it just feels like a one-on-one class. It doesn't feel any more personal than a group class, except you're there one-on-one. And then I see other teachers who are maybe spending way too much time on the talking and the postural analysis. And I know that that can be useful, but that client is there for Pilates. So I love the way that you frame that of yeah, you'll do some of that and you have to do some of that. But actually, and I agree with you, this is what I do as well. There are those kind of fundamental moves. You're like, I can get them moving and I can see what they do. They then feel like they're moving. It's like listening, but in a movement way, isn't it? It's like you're watching and you're trying to take it in. And it takes practice, right? When you're a new teacher, I mean, I remember vividly being like, how can you see that when someone explained this to me? But now you can see it. And that's why, again, you go back to mentoring, isn't it? You need a mentor to help you with this.

SPEAKER_02

It pains me. And that with our training programs, that's something they get like a hundred hours of mentorship with it. And it's like sometimes like pulling teeth to get them in because they just think, Oh, I just have to get through the hours. I'm like, Do you understand the gift you have been given? No, don't just tick the box, don't just take, just take the just be around, be a fly in the wall, just float in whenever you like, because it's priceless. Yeah, I do get a wee bit frustrated, but I just I have to breathe.

SPEAKER_00

I'd love to take you back to feet because obviously you got very interested in feet, and we obviously talked a little bit about footwork. And you mentioned, and I'm in agreement, like they're the foundations of us and they have to work well. How can we as teachers look at clients' feet and how can we because we I think all teachers out there will see this, and we probably feel more comfortable seeing some of these patterns than maybe some other movement patterns. Like we can see when someone's standing, you know, one foot's turned out or there's an arch collapsed, or you know, we see these things, but I think there can be a lack of understanding of going, like, what do I do with it? You know, do I put them on the foot bar and try and force them into a position to correct them? Like, how can we make these changes? And am I right in thinking it can take a good bit of time for these changes to come through?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So feet are genuinely, I think I've spent the last 10 years just studying the foot and ankle. I still don't know everything. So my I suppose my PhD primarily focuses in biomechanics. And oh my goodness, the feet are oh, they're they're amazing, but they're so complex. So I really feel for you, right? I feel for everybody watching this. So I'm gonna give you some golden nuggets, right? Some some high-end golden nuggets. Okay, so generally when I start somebody with my footwork, I'll start with their heels on the bar because it just flows, heels, arches, toes, polarists, that's usually my go-to. And the reason I do that is because I want to see how they'll load on the calcaneus. Okay, so just here. And what I'm looking for is do they turn out? Do they invert or evert? Are they turning out? Are they laterally loading, medially loading? What's going on? And I've already clocked them before they've even got on the reformer because I've taken their shoes off and I've had a look. They don't know I'm looking because the best time to assess is when they don't know they're being assessed. So they're on the bar, heels on, toes up, usually dorsiflex position. Usually I would try and encourage dorsiflexion because it's the movement of the ankle that we lose. And that's really important from a biomechanical perspective because I always teach um when I'm teaching students, I do some teaching at the university, and I'll always talk about physics and forces and levers. And when the ankle joint doesn't bend to 15 degrees, what it does is it loads, you essentially come off your heel faster, and you front load your foot. So you load your forefoot, and that puts forces up through the chain, usually into the medial knee, anterior medial knee, up to the hip head, into the back. So it does lots of things, and that's just simply dorsiflexion. So we want to make sure have we got even are we avoiding something there? Is there maybe a spur? Is there maybe something on the heel that they're avoiding? So I can see immediately if somebody's doing something like what you got there, what's wrong? So just by even eyeballing. Now I hate. Pilates socks. Now great from a hygiene perspective, but they hide things. I'm like, get them off. Um, I want to see your feet, I want to see the calluses because the calluses tell me where you're loading. So hard skin, I love finding a bit of hard skin. And essentially, what we're looking at there with the arches is if they're maybe kind of laterally loading, maybe they've got a bit of instability around their ankle. So that's usually an indication, possibly that anterior talofibular ligament is maybe not doing what it needs to do. Maybe the perineal tendons, perineal bravis, longus, maybe are not doing maybe, right? It would just make me go. I'm interested in looking a bit further there. I'm not diagnosing that, I'm interested. So I'm saying, can you keep that nice and steady? So almost imagine like you're keeping your weight distribution there. Then when I come down onto the arches, and obviously I'm assessing what's happening up chain as well. As I come onto the arches, I'll usually put them right underneath the mesatarsal heads, and I will get them to curl over because I'm looking at how flexible their feet are. So there's 33 joints in the foot, and then I want to get the calcaneus under. So I'm kind of trying to create this sort of shape. Now, most people can't do it, and then it softens the plantar fascia, it softens that there's four layers of muscles under there. So they're getting a bit of pressure into this and then through the bones, and that just tells me how flexible the feet are. So you'll see them doing lots of weird stuff. So it just gives me a little indication of hmm, okay, we've got some issues there.

SPEAKER_00

So they've got their arches on their arches are on the footbar, and are you and you're getting them to kind of curl over with their feet as such? And are you getting them to push out and stay in that position?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so basically I would I would generally have right underneath the mess tartal heads. Now most people will go too high with their footwork there, they'll go onto the met heads. So see the big bumpy bits. So they'll go into the met heads, so underneath, and then toes that weight and the heel under as well. So I'm almost say to them, imagine you're like a bird on a perch clasping the bar, and I'll come under and I'll be like taking the foot and taking the heel and coaxing it and feeling. I'm hands-on there, I'm right in there, feeling and seeing what they can and can't do. So that just gives me information. And then from there onto the toes. Now, whether that's Pilaris stands, parallel, take your pick. But what I'm looking at, oh, this is this is the golden nugget. So I'm looking at have they got any medial calluses around the big toe? Now that's a sweet spot. And what I want to look at here is is have they got it on one foot and not the other foot? So they've got a big bit of hard skin there and they've not got it there. That tells you that that person is loading more on that particular side for some reason that warrants more investigation. And it may be that they're twisting more, so they've got more of an abductory twist. So there may be a hip issue there, or there might be their big toe doesn't bend, they've maybe got osteoarthritic changes, and that causes a whole other host of things that happens in the foot and the tibia and the and all the way up. So it just gives you so much information. So for me, I would say the Plice teachers look at the feet, look for hard skin, look for redness, look for the colour of the feet, look at the veins popping out, look at how they're loading. And you might not know at this stage what to do with that, right? You might be like, I don't know what any of that means, but just get just get more curious, get more curious, get more and go to, you know, there's always I run workshops as well on lots of like focus on the feet workshops. So there's I spend whole days with people just on the feet. And from there, what that will give you is just this curiosity, and it has massive effect on on the overall mechanics of all the way up, not just not just um in your foot and ankle. What I would say to most teachers is movement is generally always good. However, in the foot, this is where it gets a bit tricky. When you've got osteoarthritic changes in some of the joints in the foot, movement can make it worse in some people. We've got to be a little bit careful of that, and especially around the first metatarsal phalangeo joint, so your big toe. So if you've got arthritis in that toe joint, sometimes actually moving it can inflame it and cause that reaction. Now, is that necessarily a bad thing? Okay. Sometimes I want movement there. I want movement there if I can get movement, but if I have exhausted all of that and that person's in agony, then essentially what we'd be doing is fusing that joint. So we'd be doing an athrodasis and we would fuse that joint so it doesn't move. So it's a wee bit tricky, right? And I get that. So we always generally want to have movement, but sometimes movement can cause quite a lot of problems, and especially if you've got pathology there.

SPEAKER_00

If we sort of not with the people with the pathology, so I don't know, they're coming in, they're telling you they're getting knee pain or lower back pain, and you have done some of these assessments on the feet, and you can see these imbalances that you're talking about. And like you said, I mean, it's hard to answer simply. I mean, it could be a problem in the hip, but it could, you know, it could be a problem anywhere. But how do we approach trying to make some corrections in someone's alignment and how they're loading? Is it through cueing? Do we want to posturally correct things? Like, how do we at least make that start?

SPEAKER_02

So I always start from the ground up. I I go with my biggest hitter first, right? You know that we some clients who get in and you think, oh my god, where do I start? How are they even walking? They're so bad. Right? You're like, breathe. So I start with my biggest hitter. Like, I don't overload them and chuck everything at them. So, and I give them, there's there's a very famous thing, especially when you're teach like teaching and I teach students as well, the poo sandwich. We'll say poo. You know, you've got the good, you've got the poo in the middle, and you give them good to finish. So you're always, and I always think like that with with clients is that they've got to feel good, then I've got to give them that improvement, and then I've got to give them a good, they've got to finish on the good, they've got to leave feeling that they've achieved something. So I'll start with the biggest hitter and the thing that that's the easiest to fix. But if I can, I would usually start with the feet, but not always, because it depends on the person and what they're doing. So if it was the foot, the first thing I would do is just bring some awareness to it. Let them find some awareness. So usually I would have them standing, just standing on a flat surface, not a mat, because if there's sponginess in the mat, and I get them to feel their feet. Feel your feet touching the ground. I want you to visualize your feet are like a tripod. Your big toe is one part of the tripod, your little toe is the other part of the tripod, and your heel bone is the other part, those three points. And I want you to just feel spread your toes, and I want you to just feel you've got even weight distribution through those three points. Shift your weight forwards, backwards, sideways, and just feel how that changes. So you're just bringing that awareness. From there, we may do some mobility. So that that may be on the foot bar, it may be with a ball, but it's mobility in the foot. So I would add waking, waken up those joints because remember, closed stiff joints switch off muscles. So you can't get strength if you're stiff and and and things are not moving. So we want to get that mobility in first. And then from there, I might start with some strength work. And that usually is through a thing called uh it's called short foot, or otherwise known as metatarsal doming. It's not the scrunching with a towel that everybody thinks, it's not that. It's basically what you're trying to do is imagine that's my foot, you're trying to create this, it's like a suction cup for your feet. You're trying to suction cup your feet. Um, and that's usually what I'll say, just suction cup your feet. And that's usually the end I would take them maybe onto the reformer of the tower or wherever we're going, but I would maybe start there and I would choose that first to build those foundations and then build upon that. And I'd be layering that up. And I always joke and say, it's like a lasagna. We have to get our basil sauce, then we get our, you know, and we layer it up. We don't just whack it all in at once. So we just layer it. And there isn't a, I can't say this is exactly where I would start, but if I can start from the ground up, that's where I would start. But it does depend on what I'm dealing with.

SPEAKER_00

And that's really useful the way that you do that. And I think bringing awareness is so important. People just don't even think about their feet, do they? I have a question for you around orthotics. I sometimes have clients who I feel they jump to them too quickly and maybe don't appreciate that it it's gonna maybe help but not fix the problem. That's how I've always seen it. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. Where they're useful, are they useful? Do you feel like they're in conjunction with still trying to get these patterns back in your body, or are there times where you're like, no, no, no, you absolutely need this?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so both. So orthotics absolutely have their place. And I am well known in the podiatry world as not being a great lover of orthotics because if we if we can rehab, we are rehabbing. So orthotics have a place both in in maybe a management plan, right? So I might have somebody who's in agony, and I have a tool, which may be an orthotic, that can help them. I have many tools. I could give them a steroid injection, I could do laser therapy, I could do shockwave therapy. And no matter which part of that management plan I'm building, rehab's gonna be part of that somewhere. But rehab takes about 12 weeks to take effect. And if I've got a nurse who is ready to chop her feet off because she's like, Sarah Gene, I just need to be out of pain now. Um I've not gone 12 weeks, I need this gone, then I've gotta work with what I've got. So it that might mean that we are doing a steroid injection as well as orthotic therapy, as well as rehabilitation. That might mean that if I've got a patient who's got a structural deformity, so something that I cannot rehab, I cannot change that. They have something structurally different inside their osseous tissue, inside that bone is damaged beyond anything I can do rehab-wise, then our orthotic may be indicated. And I just have to accept that I have to use that, and that is always going to be used. But for some people, an orthotic is only used for maybe 12 weeks, and it's used there like using an offloader, because what it does is it can offload the area or it can, you know, help distribute the pressure and forces. Those pressure and forces will go somewhere else, though, so it might affect something else. So you've got to understand that. So they have their place, but they shouldn't be just giving out like nothing. And if they're not doing rehab with an orthotic, I'd be asking why.

SPEAKER_00

Not to mention the running community again, but of course, there was a big time where the running community were getting their gait analysed and then getting shoes made for how they were running. And they'd be like, Well, my knee's fine now, but you know, yeah, I've got a bit of a bad back. And you'd be trying to explain, but that's because you've moved the pain somewhere, you know, you've still got to do the work to figure out why you are supinating when you're running or whatever it is that you're doing. So it's really interesting to hear that.

SPEAKER_02

There's no quick fix to you, you you're you're just going to move that force somewhere else. It is going to go somewhere else. It's it's just physics, it's just we're not gonna we're we can't change that. That is how it is. And if you refuse to do your rehab, you refuse to do the work, then you will reap what you sow. And that is exactly what I would say to patients. It's up to you. If you don't do it, this is gonna get worse.

SPEAKER_00

SJ, I have so loved chatting to you. To end our conversation, I've got some quick or quickish fire questions. One thing Pilates teachers misunderstand about rehab that it's simpler than you think. Keep it simple. That's it. Just keep it simple. Don't overcomplicate it. One habit that supports long-term movement health.

SPEAKER_02

I think just doing it, you have to just do it. If you've not read Mel Robbins, her uh let them theory is great, but also one of the things that I really liked was her 54321 goal and habit. You need to build that habit, and that is it. So you just have to do it. It just takes that habit. So, you know, work on your own self, your own your own personal development, and then from there build those habits.

SPEAKER_00

I think it has to be, doesn't it? It has to start to feel easy. It's when everything feels hard, it's just too much. I always say you this needs to feel like putting your deodorant on in the morning. And I think the challenge about building habits is building habits doesn't come because you're like, I'm gonna go five times a week this week. That's it's too much and it's never gonna land. Like you've got to start small, haven't you? And just just slightly increase until it just becomes part of the norm of your life.

SPEAKER_02

Find your thing. You know, I loved Mel when she was talking about. I mean, I had so many laugh out loud moments listening to her uh audiobook because I resonated so much. But that just basically get your backside out of bed and go, you know, that 54321 get up like a rocket. And so for me, I have I have things that that just motivate me. I like to, you know, listen to music in the morning, dance about, do stuff, just do stuff that raises my vibrations, and you just gotta do it. But again, as you're saying, yeah, small and steady. Like, you know, it's like how do you eat an elephant one little small bite at a time? You just take it one wee bit at a time, and then before you know it, it's done. Is there one cue that you use again and again? Probably the biggest one for me is some is foot-related, and it's probably the tripod stands. There's lots, but yeah, that's it. I'm really technical in my teaching, and it's not for everybody. I can't help it. I've I've got to sometimes pull myself back. I get really into it. So I really love empowering people about understanding the why and what they're doing in the movement, and so yeah, for me it's that knowing your place, so that feeling your body connected to the ground.

SPEAKER_00

I love the why, and I am a little guilty of that too. And but I think it gives people the reason of why they're coming. You know, it's not just exercise. There is a reason why you're coming, and there's a reason why we're teaching you bridging every week or whatever, you know. I like to kind of joke about, you know, how many segments of your spine can move, and if how many do you move? You know, this is why we're doing it. Yeah, oh totally.

SPEAKER_02

I have a terribly wicked sense of humor. I'm a bit, I'm a bit, I'm just fun. It's fun. So sometimes what I'll do on the deformer, so see how like maybe doing shoulder bridge reformer and they've got a lot of springs on Abba outright, put the lightest spring on, you're going to do your bridge. If the carriage moves, this is squid game, you're out. And you know what that means. You're dead.

SPEAKER_01

Just as yeah, you're all skimmy, you're all using the hamstring. Yeah, so yeah, we have fun. We have fun.

SPEAKER_00

And as I said, and what has Pilates and movement given you personally? It's my whole life.

SPEAKER_02

It's been Polaris has been my identity my whole life. It's given me my career. Um, nearly 30 years. It feels like a baby, and I'm so, you know, I feel like I've I've birthed parts of it. I love Pilaris. I'm not like a Polaris purist. I believe there's, you know, it's not that, but it's it's been my whole career. It's the yeah, the legacy, it's the it's everything I've built my whole business and life on. Yeah. Polaris has has been my constant. I think when I'm to the day I die, I'll always be doing Polaris. I'll always be teaching in some way or have some involvement in it.

SPEAKER_00

And if people are listening and they want to work with you, how can they find out a bit more about you and what you do?

SPEAKER_02

So yeah, we are in Glasgow. We've got clinics in the west end of Glasgow, the south side of Glasgow, and the east end of Glasgow. And it's called therehabhub.co.uk. And you can find me Sarah Jane Walls. You don't really need to look for on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, you name it. Although, yeah, maybe not so much Twitter now, but yeah, uh therehabhub.co.uk.

SPEAKER_00

You'll find us there. Oh, well, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us today. It's been so interesting. I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, thank you, Nick. No, it's been lovely. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00

It's been to just chew the fat. A big thank you to SJ for such a fascinating conversation. I really enjoyed it. And what I really enjoyed was just how clearly she was able to bridge the gap between the clinical world that she does and also what we do as Pilates teachers. Sometimes topics like biomechanics, injury, or rehab can feel quite intimidating, but SJ has a wonderful way of making it feel practical and relevant to what we see every day in our studio. So I hope that was helpful and inspiring for you. Thank you so much for joining me this week, and I will see you next time for another episode of Beyond the Reformer.